How To Spend Other People's Money

00:00 - Speaker 1 Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs Podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. 00:09 - Speaker 2 Hey everybody, we are going to be sitting down right now with Dr Erwin Lutzer. You are going to be absolutely challenged regarding capitalism, communism, atheism, belief in God. It matters. You're going to find out how much in just a moment. 00:26 - Speaker 1 It matters. You're going to find out how much in just a moment. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com/podcast today. If this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five-star ratings. To us that's like saying amen or yes. Then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's Word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs. 00:55 - Speaker 2 Well, listen, welcome to the Jack Hibbs Show, and we are delighted to have with us today a man that is not only a legend in our time. He's a legend in the library, he's a legend in the pulpit, he's a legend sitting at the table, and I'm talking about the wonderful pastor and tremendous preacher and teacher of the Word of God at Moody Bible Church, dr Erwin Lutzer, and he's authored over 70 books and he spent 36 years in that pulpit at the great Moody Bible Church, dr Erwin Lutzer, and he's authored over 70 books and he spent 36 years in that pulpit at the great Moody Church in Chicago. And now we have the honor of having him on our program right now today. So, dr Erwin, it's awesome to have you and we love you so much. You already know that. 01:40 - Speaker 3 Thank you so much, Jack. And, of course, as I think about your ministry, I rejoice in the fact that God has given you a wide audience and you and I share the same passion, namely to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to this generation. But things are changing, aren't they? 01:58 - Speaker 2 They are changing and that reality brings us to the table today. We're so delighted that you've been able to come, and we want to talk about not only what your great book is about. We will not be silenced, but I'm afraid that this great book of yours may have been written a little late, unless there is some sort of an awakening in our nation, because it sounds like, as a country, we have grown silent. We have seen some bizarre things happen in our political culture, in our religious or faith culture, but I want you to just speak to some things that are on your heart, because here we are sitting right now and in the midst of the era in which we're in right now, the political atmosphere we're in right now, the era in which we're in right now, the political atmosphere we're in right now, america has recently made some decisions that are quite shocking, and I'd love to hear what you are thinking and what you're planning on and how you're going to address what we're living through right now. 02:58 - Speaker 3 Well, Jack, first of all, since you referenced my book, it has an entire chapter on socialism, and what I'm going to do is to begin by talking about why it can't work. Everybody says, oh, socialism doesn't work, but sometimes they don't flush that out and say why doesn't it work? So what we have to understand is, first of all, socialism is the government taking care of the means of production. It is the means by which you take control of the economy to bring about equality. Equality is the big word. 03:38 Now, when it comes to socialism, they love certain slogans. You know, not only free health care, but free buses, free this, free that, like that. So the other day I saw a T-shirt that said this the dream is free, but paying for the hassle to get there is billed separately. So the dream is free. Have you ever noticed this about socialists? They never talk about the ability to earn money or to multiply money, only how it's to be divided. That's right. So we have to begin by explaining to people why it is that socialists run out of money, why it is that socialists run out of money. Now isn't it interesting that candidates who advance democratic socialism and we'll define that a little bit more specifically right out of the Communist Manifesto, the candidates that are running on a democratic socialism platform. Where do they get all their money? They get it from people who made their money through capitalism. That's right. 04:48 And then what becomes also very interesting is the fact that they don't understand this Socialism. Pure socialism can never make money. It can only spend it Right. So, in other words, words to illustrate it, let's think of a pie. Okay, here's a pie and somebody says we have to divide this up so that it's equal. You know, there are some people who have a bigger piece of the pie than this person over here. He has a smaller piece. Let's make it equal. Okay, so we divide it all up into various pieces and then we give away the pieces and you know what we're left with? An empty dish, that's right. 05:32 There are no more pies. No more pie. That's why socialism can work for a little while, until you've exhausted all the money that was made through capitalism, and then you get into difficulty and people need to understand that this is so critical. You know, perhaps somebody is watching this and saying why is it that two pastors are interested in this? Why is it that we are so concerned about what is happening in our culture? How does it relate to the gospel? Well, at some point we're going to talk about that in this podcast, and if not, I'm going to mention it at the end, because that's very critical. Yeah, at some point we're going to talk about that in this podcast, and if not, I'm going to mention it at the end because that's very critical. 06:08 Yeah, absolutely Very critical. So here's what you have then. You have a system that is going to take care and actually, what shall we say? Control the economy to bring about fairness. So what you're going to do, as an example, is you're going to put a cap on rent. Okay, who is going to build new housing? Who is going to invest in buying rental property? Nobody, nobody. And so what you do is you control the economy, you take out all the initiative, and what you do then is you have this supply of money, and when you run out of money wasn't it Margaret Thatcher who famously said you know the quote the problem with socialism is, pretty soon you run out of other people's money, and then what do you do? So people need to understand that it cannot work, and you don't have to be an economist to figure this out. Eventually, the state runs out of money. Now let's talk about initiative. There you go. 07:22 By the way, in this book that we're talking about, I think the chapter is entitled. So capitalism is the disease, socialism is the cure, and that's where I discuss this. What you and I need to understand is this, and there's another slogan also that people oftentimes use, and it has to do with capitalism is based on greed. Socialism is based on need. Is there greed in capitalism? Absolutely, greed is everywhere. 07:55 - Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a motive in that. 07:57 - Speaker 3 The seeds of greed are in all of us, but, Jack, the opposite is true. But, Jack, the opposite is true. Socialism is based on greed and it's not based on need. So what happens? Okay, it's 1985. I'm preaching. I don't know where you were in 1985, but I took a trip with my wife to the Soviet Union. We were actually in Russia. 08:23 - Speaker 2 I would be there five years later. 08:24 - Speaker 3 Really, yes, very fascinating. I don't know how much better it was at that time, but here my interpreter tells me this. He said that he worked in a factory that made shoes. Nobody could wear them because the contour on the foot was wrong. The contour was backwards, so nobody could wear them. But they kept manufacturing them because they kept being paid, whether or not people bought it or not. So it didn't matter whether or not people needed it or wanted it. Socialism actually is the one that then makes things that nobody needs Capitalism. If you did that in a capitalistic world, you know it would all be gone, because if people aren't going to buy it, if they don't want it Right, then of course you don't do it. 09:13 - Speaker 2 It's fascinating what you're saying. I not only went to Russia shortly after you, but wound up making 22 trips back to Russia and collectively probably spent over the years as though I lived there a year. What people don't realize is that when Reagan said, mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall, we went in there and I was first of all shocked by the radical division between the old St Petersburg, for example, the old Moscow under Peter the Great very ornate, very European looking buildings, very old, very beautiful, large, spacious parks, all of this and then the Soviet era construction big gray, 40 foot story buildings looking like a mousetrap, heartless, cold, bitter, lifeless, and the people reflected that culture. There were those who remembered the past. I had a woman doctor grabbed me by the face. She actually grabbed me by the face. 10:25 She was in her 90s and I was preaching the gospel out in front of a metro stop in Moscow and she dropped her bags of mushrooms and she grabbed me by the face saying Slava Boga, slava Boga, and I didn't know what that meant. My translator's telling me as she's crying, this woman is speaking and she's saying praise God, praise God. I remember when the Soviet, when the, when the communists came in and took the crosses and the icons off of our apartment and said God, God was dead. And she said I've been praying all of these years that the gospel would be preached in my city again. Having said that, there was this incredible, stark difference, and you said it exactly right. Socialism needs someone else to pay for everything that it wants to get its hands on. It claims that we need to be equal, but their equality is a lie, because they want you to work while they do not work. They want you to produce while they consume. 11:29 - Speaker 3 I'm going to see if I can pull a quote out of my mind from Winston Churchill the great vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of blessings. The great virtue of socialism is the equal distribution of misery. 11:49 - Speaker 2 Wow, so true. 11:50 - Speaker 3 That's so true. And you know, since you get into that, I have to too. In 1970, my wife and I actually went into East Germany and it's because I ended up leading tours to the sites of the Reformation in Germany and as a result of that. But we had to go through Checkpoint Charlie and all. And so we get into Eastern Germany where most of the Luther sites are the sense of deadness. People weren't smiling. And then you go in the store and maybe they had one kind of meat. Exactly, I saw that. Maybe one kind of meat. Maybe the next day they were going to have rice. Why, look at our stores. You can have this kind of cheese, that kind of cheese. You can have this. 12:41 My sister was a missionary in Africa and she came back. She couldn't even go into our store. She was so frustrated she didn't know what she should choose. Only capitalism can do that. I was in another communist country where the man said, the pastor said, we don't have any gifts to give at Christmas. We sit around and sing Christmas carols and we bring our food together so that we can eat, but there's nothing in the stores. The shelves are empty. So what people have to understand is this something else. What people have to understand is this something else. Sometimes it is said oh, socialism makes it so easy because it isn't based on greed. Socialism institutes corruption. That's right, why, if you want to earn more money because of your family working harder, won't do it, because you know you're put in this box. You're paid a certain amount of money, so you know what you do. You game the system. 13:41 - Speaker 2 That's right. 13:42 - Speaker 3 Over and over again and I discovered even Christians in the Soviet Union, in Russia, had to game the system. They didn't break any moral laws, but they broke some of the laws of their country. Like you, shouldn't accept American money. 13:58 - Speaker 2 Exactly, I saw that happen. 14:00 - Speaker 3 You know that's the law, but they did because they had to feed their families. Now, something else that I learned in Russia. The interpreter says nobody can live on the wages that we get from the government, so there was a whole shadow of an economy that was run basically by the people in terms of bartering. That's right, you know I need some potatoes. Okay, I'll give you a barrel of potatoes or a bushel or whatever, but you have to come and fix the door in my apartment, which doesn't fit. Let's see if we can work something out. That's the way in which they survive. 14:40 - Speaker 2 You're right, I saw it. 14:41 - Speaker 3 Yeah, and that's the way things go. And so corruption is at the heart of the socialistic system. Now, of course, capitalism has its corruption too, and we're so thankful for the laws that are put in place and so forth. Now, Jack, since we're talking about democratic socialism, what do you have there? 15:03 I have the Communist Manifesto. There you go, because of something else that I'm working on. I've read this document very carefully and what I have uncovered is so fascinating we can't even get into it here, but here's the word democracy. So I'm going to read. 15:23 The communist revolution is the most radical rupture with traditional property relations. No wonder that its development involves the most radical rupture with traditional ideas. But let us have done with a bourgeoisie, that is, the property owners. Objections to communism. We have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the workers to the position of ruling class and then establish democracy. So here's what you do you destroy all of the people, the owners. You have to get rid of them, because what Mark says early on is the heart of it is there's no private property. So all the owners have to be put to death because you know they own things. So you get rid of them. You can't have that because they're creative and entrepreneurial. 16:18 There's so much we could say. Jack, when communism is implemented, what the people are looking for, who are going to implement it, are criminals. Yes, you have to be a criminal, it's always been the case. You have to be a criminal. Yes and oh. There's so much else we could get into, but here's the point, let's get into it. Well, let's get into it, but here's the point. So once you take the property away and you kill all the owners, then you have established democracy. That's what it says right here in the Communist Manifesto. So there is a sense in which it is interested. Like Putin, he has democracy. You know all of the communist countries. They all have democracy, even though there is only one person you can vote for. 17:10 - Speaker 2 Well, you just raised a very, very good point to our experiment as Americans. Our founding fathers clearly articulated they studied the previous empires and the monarchies before and they concluded we will not have a democracy in America, we will have a constitutional republic. And no one had ever done that before, because prior was the divine right of kings, and you may call the czar or the Kaiser or the king, but for America this was completely different. And of course, Ben Franklin said that the founders provided us a democracy I mean, sorry, a republic, if you can keep it. What you and I are watching right now is a bunch of spoiled brats, quite frankly, growing up with basically an iPhone in their face at the age of one. They think everything just falls out of an ATM machine and that they want to. They see a car maybe it's a Porsche, and they want it, but they're not willing to go to USC or to get the degree or to learn that skill that gives you the resources to get that kind of an item. And so you nailed it. It's the criminality of the human heart, longing and lusting for what someone else has. I don't want to roll up my sleeves to get it, I'm just going to take it from them, and that's a bad day when that mindset becomes our government leaders. We're sitting in California. 18:41 I got to tell you. I have to tell you. I'm going to be honest. I haven't said this to anyone publicly, but I'll get over it. And here's the deal. I listened to your advice some time ago and wrote a book with the wonderful people at Harvest House Publishers. The book did very well. I didn't know what to do about that much effort I put into the writing of that book and the months putting that book together, only to turn the proceeds over by and large to the state of California. The magnitude of taxes resulted with this I don't and listen, I want to make sure I'm saying this correctly it sucked the creativity out of me, not because it was a money issue. It was because the effort was something that I would not see the benefits of it from my own fingertips to others. In other words, I couldn't make those proceeds and wind up sending more money to Samaritan's Purse or to a homeless outreach. No, no, no. I had to send the bulk of it to the state of California. 20:02 - Speaker 3 Jack, thank God that you were able to keep a little bit of it. 20:06 - Speaker 2 This is true. A friend of mine told me you should be happy that you had to pay that amount of taxes. 20:11 - Speaker 3 Oh yeah, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying at least you got a little bit of it. In a socialist economy, you get none. Yes, yeah, oh, there's so much to say. Marx said, for example and it's all here in the manifesto that no child should ever receive an inheritance. And the reason he said that is it's not equal, you know. In other words, a child may have more money and everybody's supposed to begin at zero so that you have equality. Now here's what I have to say Marx always was hitting on his father and mother for money, always, in fact, you know what his mother said. Tell me, in fact, you know what his mother said. Tell me. She said I wish Carl were actually to earn some capital rather than just writing about it. That's an actual quote. Now, here's the point. Here's the point You're not supposed to receive an inheritance. It's right here. I could find it instantly. And you know what? When she died, his father had previously died. He hired an attorney so that he could get her inheritance. There you go. So there you go. Now there's something else I want to say, and this is so important to everyone who's listening Human rights. 21:28 In the communist system, you're not allowed to have freedom of expression and, by the way, in this book we Will Not Be Sil silenced. There is a whole chapter on freedom of speech and arguments against it and arguments for it. I help people to understand the communist side, but here's the point. You're not supposed to, in the communist system, to have freedom because, after all, it is the state that gives you rights. Okay, well, the right. The state doesn't give you right to criticize the state, so you have no basis upon which you can criticize it, because it didn't give you that. Right now, I always knew that. The statement, you know that we believe that all men were created equal and were endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights that come from God, Jack, that is radical. 22:23 - Speaker 2 It is radical. 22:24 - Speaker 3 Because you see, if the state gives you rights, the state can also rescind the rights. That's right, because the only right that you have Now. The point is this, and you know, and we could go on and have even a longer discussion what did Marx get wrong? Well, of course, we could talk about how he tried to do away with God. I think he believed in God. By the way, he was railing against God, always railing against. 22:55 - Speaker 2 I love it. I think you're going to say because how can you rail against somebody that doesn't? 22:59 - Speaker 3 exist. Right, right, right, he railed against God. But anyway, how can you do wrong? If you try to do away with God, you capture all of the land owners and steal their property, and you also take away people's freedoms. You put them in poverty. So what could go right? But here's the point that I want to make, and this relates to the gospel, and maybe this is a good time for us to go there. It all had to do with human nature. 23:33 Marx believed in the perfectibility of human beings. He believed that if there was a revolution and the bourgeoisie were taken care of and killed and the proletariat, the workers, took over, that suddenly you would have this wonderful utopia. And I don't have it here, but there's a quote in which he said it's not in here, it's in a different thing that he wrote. He believed that everyone would be able to only work what they enjoyed working. Everyone would enjoy it. He said I could do things like you know work in the morning, in the afternoon, go fishing, in the evening, have discussions and go hunting also, and I would neither become a hunter nor a critic, and nor this, this. I could enjoy all of that. Well, my goodness, you look at that and you say what a wonderful life, but why? 24:38 the question has to do with sin yeah and the whole idea is that the reason that we do evil is only because of external forces of oppression. Now that, of course, comes into our culture with the whole oppression, the whole division of humanity that we can't even get into, but it's because of oppression. Remove the oppression, yes, remove the oppression and you don't even need the police. No, they can. You can defund the police because, after all, everyone is going to behave so beautifully because the only sin is coming at you. Yeah, it is not within you. That's right. And there was a man who preceded Marx who said this that you are not responsible for your character because your character is shaped by forces outside of you. So you have no responsibility for who you are. So that's the Marxist doctrine of sin. If there is such a thing as sin, what does the Bible say? The Bible says you have sin in the heart. You know, I was born a sinner, I was born with a bent toward evil. So it has an entirely different reaction to what has happened. 26:01 - Speaker 2 It's awesome. Our founding fathers again, I'm gonna go back to our founding fathers' founding fathers. The pilgrims. People want to argue about 1619. 1619. It was horrible 1619. 26:20 Of course, the pilgrims I'm talking about the ones that we relate to that made this nation are the 1620 pilgrims. But the 1619 guys they had been coming over since roughly about 1605. And they're going to Jamestown, right, they're planting these locations and it is recorded in our historical writings that when people came over, they wanted equal distribution of all that was raised the crops, the, whatever, the fish caught and what happened was there was a bulk of them. I think it's in the book the Light and the Glory, I do believe, by David Emanuel. It doesn't matter, but it's well documented that by the time the first winter had come, the Jamestown people, they were starting to starve to death. In fact, some did starve to death because there were so many not working and mooching off of those that were that it completely skewed the whole mess. 27:23 Jamestown was a disaster. There wasn't success until Plymouth. And Plymouth is that Judeo-Christian worldview value that authored, of course, the Mayflower Compact Very different. You've got the difference between Plymouth and Jamestown, one built on faith, and we're going to roll up our sleeves and we're going to build a country. The other one is we're going to start out all being equal and oh, by the way, some of us don't want to work. And that Jamestown thing completely went belly up. It was a mess. It's never worked. And one of the things that you notice in a capitalistic culture is that we create. We're excited. You don't see Apple computer and Tesla and you don't see Ford motor company and you don't see SpaceX and coming out of Russia. You don't see it coming out of out of China. But what's interesting to me is, whatever we design here in a free country like this, it's telling to me that what takes us 10 years to develop, you notice China has it in two years. They wind up stealing it or buying it. 28:33 - Speaker 3 Well, there are tens of thousands of students from all over the world that come to America to learn how to do it. They don't invent their own stuff, they take ours. 28:43 - Speaker 2 There, you go. 28:44 - Speaker 3 Now you raise so many issues. One of them has to do with the founding of America and history. Did you notice that in communism, in socialism, one of the things that they do is they vilify our history. They point to slavery and so forth, which is horrible, which is absolutely horrible, of course, but as if that's the only thing about America. Now, this is actually based on the Communist Manifesto and other ideas that say this that when you become a communist country, the past has to be vilified. It has to be vilified. 29:24 After all, st Petersburg became Leningrad and then it became Stalingrad and various streets were renamed, because it's actually the beginning and the dawning of a new era, even as some of the socialists are talking about. So what you have to do is to see that even history has to be vilified and changed. Here's an illustration I use in the book Okay, you're walking along the street and behind you is a 16th century building. It's a beautiful building. But then you turn a corner and you look behind and what do you see? You see something else. You've forgotten your history. 30:05 - Speaker 2 That's right. 30:06 - Speaker 3 You know that the man's name is not coming to me immediately, but he was an advisor Schlesinger to President Kennedy. I want everyone to listen carefully. He says history is to a country as memory is to a person. If a person loses his memory, who is he? He doesn't know who he is, so he can be told he is whatever they want it to be. 30:33 Having no knowledge of where you've come from Right and that's one of the things that is being taught today is the vilification of history, or the interpretation of history, all that to put America in the worst possible light. Now, Jack, I want to emphasize why it is that what we're talking about is important. It's very important. I had a friend who gave a lecture on Christian nationalism and he's a good guy. Good guy loves the Lord but he was saying, in effect, that America doesn't really matter that much, because he ended by saying the great hope for the world is not America, it's Jesus Christ. Now, of course, it's Jesus Christ. 31:22 - Speaker 1 I've given my life to that and you've given your life to that, Of course it's Jesus. 31:26 - Speaker 3 Christ. But now, with a heavy heart, I have to say this that's true, but there is no nation on earth that has given as much money to missions, orphanages, youages in the four or five, the most benevolent, the most benevolent. And if you go across the world, as you have more often than I have, every ministry in these socialist countries that is preaching the gospel is funded by American dollars. And so where do people come when they need money for these ministries? They don't go to socialist countries, they come to America. 32:05 - Speaker 2 So I want to ask you something. We know that the Marxists, the socialists, has got to know that really, I mean, they wouldn't admit it, but they've got to know that, right. They know that when there's an earthquake in Thailand, you and I pull out our checkbooks, we're transferring money. That's not happening, like you just said, in other countries. That said, peeling back the onion or going behind the veil, it comes down to the spiritual realm, doesn't it? When we are generous, we are acting like Jesus, right, but the flesh is very greedy, very self-centered, very survival of the fittest. That's what I'm going to do, sorry, sorry, dr Erwin, but I'm going to be taking your portion because I'm stronger and so it's the strongest. 32:55 Survives the spiritual side of things. Doesn't it play right into Satan's doctrines that we know that keep man imprisoned, keep man from being creative, keep man from having a family, keep man from expanding, because there's so much value that we get, as humans, making something with our own hands, the crafts, be it construction or a book, or a message, or the repairing of the vehicle, it doesn't matter what it is we get profound satisfaction, right, and Satan, I think, would rather have us be in the corner with, like we saw in Russia, vodka given to you by the state. By the way, every russian got their monthly allocation of vodka to keep you numb and dumb and dependent upon the, the state, rather than being in a free society whereby you would be dependent upon God and rolling up your own sleeves to make you know Jack. 33:56 - Speaker 3 In israel, I read about a kibbutz that decided that they would run it according to socialist principles Everybody gets paid the same, etc. Well, of course there were those who slept in till 10 o'clock Jamestown. Yeah, those who, of course they brought their dogs to lunch. They left lights on because, after all, it doesn't matter, right? And you know what the conclusion was we became a paradise for parasites. 34:27 - Speaker 2 What a word yeah. 34:29 - Speaker 3 And that's what socialism does, is it brings about that. Now, of course, people can say capitalism is greedy and all that. We admit that. But it's important to have guidelines and so forth. And then I don't know if we should get into this, but very quickly, I was having lunch with a somewhat well-known editor of a national magazine, even though he's now retired, and he looked at me and he said well, the early church, they were socialists, you know. They came together and they had all their goods in common in the book of Acts. Well, yeah, but it was totally voluntary. You know, ananias and Sapphira, you could have kept the land. The land was yours to do with whatever you want. It's because you lied about it. Because you lied about it, yeah, and so if Christians want to get together and share some of their blessings, let them. 35:23 - Speaker 2 But if you keep reading, paul is the one going around taking up offerings to send back to the Jerusalem church, because they turned into a culture that was starving to death. 35:32 - Speaker 3 But wow. So here is maybe the bottom line. I'm very concerned about America. Tears almost come to my eyes right now when I think of what is happening, what is happening in New York and how this could become a template for all of America. And so what we have to do is we have to pray, and I don't say that just because it's the right thing to say we have to seek God. We have to pray, and I don't say that just because it's the right thing to say we have to seek God, we have to evangelize, to tell others the good news of the gospel. But then we have to ask ourselves this question where are we willing to draw the line? Thank you. What is our role? What does faithfulness look like? 36:17 And every person has to answer that for themselves, because, you know, to the wife who's home, to the homeschooler, that'll be answered differently than the businessman who sent me a text and said can I sign this document? It had to do with, you know, transgender pronouns. I have to use the pronoun, the required pronoun. All of us have to answer at what point are we willing to do it? And then there's a footnote Again, if I might humbly recognize, we will not be silenced. I have a chapter on how Islam is willing to team up with socialists. 36:57 - Speaker 2 Absolute historical fact. 36:59 - Speaker 3 Yes, willing to team up with socialists Absolute historical fact, yes, and the reason is not because they agree on worldviews, but they have a common enemy Christianity and capitalism. That's right, and so what they are doing is, for now, we can work together to bring about the destruction of that. So, to all those who are listening, don't let this shake you, because our faith is in God. We should take it as a badge of honor if we're going to suffer for Christ. But at the same time, let's not be deceived and think oh, there's a new sense of openness because of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. There may be, maybe, but a backlash, I believe I hope I'm wrong is developing and we need to ask this. 37:44 And so the bottom line is this Jesus died for sinners. We are all sinners. Our greatest problem is within us, not outside of us. Outside of us, there may be many injustices, but the deepest part of us is this, and we have to take much joy in the fact that our sins can be forgiven. Our future is totally secure and the gospel of Jesus Christ goes to the very core of who we are and brings about transformation. So, to those who are listening, who've never savingly believed on Christ, we urge you to do that, because in the midst of the storm, what you really need is Jesus. 38:29 - Speaker 2 Believing everything that you just said, agreeing completely. What would happen to a person if they did exactly what you just said? What would be their life? Lived in a post, prayer to accept Christ, repentance and leaning upon him, accepting his forgiveness. You have a new life. I'm asking you this to set you up. We've not rehearsed this at all, but what I want to get out of you is this Does God save us to set us over here, just so we can run out the clock in our pajamas, so to speak? And now that I'm saved, I'm saved. And or does he save us to not only, like we said earlier, the gospel? That's secured, you're secured, you're there, that's done. 39:32 In the meantime, before you come to the end of your days, how does this believer live out their discipleship in the secular world, in the day-to-day life? What does it look like? Because I say this, for example, you mentioned New York, new York. Most Americans don't know what I'm about to say. I watch more international news than I watch American news, international news than I watch American news. Very few Americans know that when Mandani won the mayoral race in New York City, new York City 24 years ago was attacked by Muslim fundamentalist radicals jihadists. The actual person who Mandani says he is. 24 years ago we were attacked by that doctrine and now that doctrine is in the top seat for that city. He got in there by saying I will give you free stuff, I will erase all this, what you owe, we're all going to have everything the same and we're going to tax, to your point. We're going to tax all these corporations within the city limits of New York, so we can all have everything the same. 40:56 Islam will go to bed with Marxism. Islam will go to bed with the LBGTQ community Absolutely. But Satan is smart enough to know how stupid those people are, because in history, islam cannot suffer a homosexual to live. They must be put to death. But the homosexual community, they don't know that. So they think, hey, this new guy, we're going to vote for him because he's not a Christian, he's a Muslim. This is great. So how does a Christian in New York City right now? If you were a Christian in New York City, what do you do? How do you live? 41:38 - Speaker 3 Well, I guess I have to say, with a smile, I'm kind of glad I don't live there. But here's the thing I, while you're asking the question, I was thinking of Colossians, chapter 3, which I just read this morning and meditated on Seek those things which are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. And then it says for when Christ will appear, we will appear with him in glory. Can you imagine that that we will appear, glory? Can you imagine that that we will appear? So what you do is, when it comes to your values, only one thing on your mind, and that is eternity and not time, and ask yourself this question In a hundred years, what will I wish I had done today? What does faithfulness look like for me? And that's, I think, where we have to go. 42:35 - Speaker 2 We have children, we have grandchildren. What you and I say do write, teach, vote, speak. Let's be honest you and I could go over here to LAX and fly to Hawaii and have a nice week. We're not doing that. We're fighting for the future of our children. We hope Jesus comes back soon, but we fight like he's not going to come back. 43:02 For 100 years you and I have lived our lives, but now we have our kids and our grandkids to fight for. We want them to fight for. We want them to live free. We want them and in that part of the responsibility, I'll say stewardship of living in a republic is doing the right thing and holding elected officials to accountability to find out who my neighbor is, because in my opinion, america is heading down a path whereby we are taking our faith away from the big G in God and putting it in the little G of government. Government is promising everything God said I'll do for you and we. 43:52 Isn't it interesting that we that, once God is dead in our conscience, we stopped tithing and we start paying more and more taxes? We wind up tithing to the little G and believe it, I don't get me wrong we must pay our taxes. That said, if you're living to have the government pay your way, you know that's a pretty sad way to live. But, as you just said, fast forward. How is government going to help you on your deathbed? How is government going to help you with your first step into eternity? It ain't going to be there with your first step into eternity. 44:29 - Speaker 3 It ain't going to be there. Jack, you've raised so many questions that it's difficult for me to answer, but I'll say a couple of comments about a few of them. First of all, regarding our children In a relay race, passing the baton is the most dangerous time. The baton can be dropped. Somebody can pick it up, drop it, and that's a very dangerous time. The baton can be dropped, somebody can pick it up, drop it, and that's a very difficult time. So you and I have to be thinking about our children, and I know that I'm saying this to Christian parents don't throw your lambs to the wolves. Don't do that. 45:02 The second thing that you were saying has to do with the whole issue of entitlement. We recognize that it is the government's responsibility to help those who absolutely cannot help themselves. You know, for various reasons there may be people out there, but I have to tell you the fraud is unbelievable and socialism exacerbates that and makes that even more. And then what we have to do is we also have to look to the past to see those who are faithful. And you know, one of my interests is martyrdom, where people were willing to say I'm going to stay here Now I have to tell you about the story of a woman. 45:46 I didn't intend to get into this, but she was in prison for her faith. She and her husband had been married just before she went to prison and in prison she discovered she was pregnant. Her husband was taken out of prison and killed. She, in prison, was allowed to give birth to the baby. She, in prison, was allowed to give birth to the baby, but what she did is she died for her faith and she wrote a letter to her little baby that she could not raise and I'll tell you. When I read that letter I cried. I could not hold back the tears. Wow, because here was a woman who was telling her precious little baby that she had to give up. I hope some relative got a hold of the child, how much she loved her, how much she wanted to care for her, but at the end of the day, Jesus was more precious and being faithful to the gospel was more important than even looking after her. 46:47 Now there are people who are going to listen who say no, that should have been. Her first responsibility was the baby. We can argue that point, but think of the reward in heaven for people like this, who said I'm going to be true to Jesus in the worst of circumstances. And that, I think, is where we probably should end today. It's been a long podcast Asking people this question how much love do you have for Christ that is greater than your love of sin, that is greater than your love of self, and how do we navigate this so that we end successfully? 47:30 - Speaker 2 Perfectly, perfectly, well said. Love for God. It's not a five-step program. You don't have to go to a 12-step recovery place in Malibu. Love God most and all those things will begin to fade away. He'll begin to lift them from you. 47:46 Friends, we've been sitting with Dr Erwin Lutzer and please, by everything this man has written I'm not exaggerating when I say that His ability to craft words and arguments and logic and reason, simply they're found in the pages of the books that he has written, and he has written many of them we're talking today a little bit about. We Will Not Be Silenced and it's a powerful book. The foreword is written by Dr David Jeremiah. And just encourage you to do what I do. I listen to him. Sometimes, I text him and I tell him I just listen to a sermon In the mornings. I go to YouTube and I type in your name and it pops up Erwin Lutzer sermons and there's a zillion of them and I get my feeding in the morning from you and I'm so grateful. 48:40 Friends, do the same and wherever you're at, please find a New Testament church. I have to put it that way now these days A New Testament church, a church that put it that way now these days, a New Testament church, a church that teaches the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation, that does not shy away from the full counsel of God. The Lord has not left you somewhere in a desert. There is a group of believers somewhere where you're at in the world and pray. He'll lead you to them, but by all means, the hour is late. Christ is coming. We need to get ready, and in getting ready we do that by being disciples, and we take his word and his love to every person that we possibly can. So until next time, God bless you can. 49:34 - Speaker 1 So until next time, God bless you. This Jack Hibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities, are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.