A High Calling

Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. Everybody with us today in this very special podcast is a United States Navy Chaplain. One who represents the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military realm. We're gonna be learning a lot and maybe you can play a role as well. So stay tuned I think you're gonna get a lot out of this. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast. Today if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us that's like saying amen or yes then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs. We're everybody welcome to this podcast. We're glad that you guys are with us. This is a special podcast. I say that every time but this is special but I can preface it by saying this it's special because at the time of this we're recording today right now is June 6th and tragically many young people in our nation today they're not aware of what June 6th really stands for and really what it means. Let's put it to you this way. June 6th there were thousands of people dying by the hour on the shores of France as the allied forces at that time the greatest armada the greatest gathering of a military invasion and world history where the US and the allied forces were storming Europe to liberate Europe from the tyranny of Adolf Hitler. I'm talking of course about D. Day June 6th and so I just want you to know that many of you do know some of you don't know but this is very very special day and it just so happens that we have with us the guests that makes this a special time together and do listen carefully because what he's going to be sharing is not only incredibly excellent but you just you just might be the person that can fit the bill on on this one and play the role that God has called you to be. I'm talking about into a brother that has been I can't remember when we first met but it's been a long time but Captain Dennis Wheeler of the United States Navy. He didn't start out on the Navy exactly he started out in the Marine Corps but the Marine Corps is the Department of the Navy but he has been in and protecting our freedoms for some 37 38 years. A few years started when he was about four years old in the Marine Corps but listen you guys it's a real honor to have this man of God with us and he's going to be talking to us today about chaplaincy. In the United States armed forces where did it come from? How did that come about? What does it take to be a chaplain in the United States military and specifically as he mentions and instructs us if you're not that person that can step into that role maybe you know somebody I guess you know what we're looking for just a few good men men yes and so this is gonna be a great great time it's it's always great to be with you it's great thank you so much for having me here today appreciate that and just appreciate your support of the military what you do for the government even you know I just want to say thank you for your prayer in Congress I know you got a lot I heard about it I saw a lot about it in the news but thank you for your strength in your courage to be able to go before Congress and to pray the prayer that you pray I know that you said this is just a normal prayer that prayer that you pray yeah but they needed to hear that I mean this you know this is a prayer that we would say about ourselves about repentance and and where we need to go ourselves and that's where our country needs to go as well so thank you on behalf of you know Calvary Chapel Chaplains and the military in general for standing up for for truth and for God and to to bring it when it needs to be brought yeah but it was my honor and pleasure and I I'm grateful for that I I'm grateful for the fact and you can jump in on this is the fact that I forget the exact year but I was something like in the 249th or 250th year I think it dates back of course before 1776 of clergy opening the gathering of the Continental Congress in prayer and so this chaplaincy thing this chaplaincy relationship there are chaplains in the civilian world and then there's chaplains in the military realm can you impact the difference the function of a chaplain and how those two are different sure kind of go back to what you said about the history of the chaplaincy is that general George Washington before he's president as he's building the Continental Army you know there was establishment of the army and their birthday I think is in August sorry my army brothers I think it's August the Marine Corps birthday is November 10th everybody knows that one but during that time frame general George Washington said we have this army we have this navy we need to have chaplains we need to have pastors that are a part of the military and so we were established as a chaplaincy back in 1775 like you said before the Constitution was even ratified and you know and signed by the the signers that there was a chaplaincy from the very beginning of our country that was part of the military system and so there's you know the army chaplains were would go with the their battalions navy chaplains were assigned to those very early ships yeah and the what they were told that you know what they were to do was to preach sermons on Sunday and then to teach as well yeah so they were the teachers on the ships during those timeframes and so they were going out in the revolutionary war on the ships and with those battalions on the land in the army to be able to provide a sense of military or a sense of God's presence with them you know in the book of Deuteronomy it talks about how the priest were to carry the ark before the army going out to war and that was God's presence going with them and there was such a a sense of you know God's presence not just to win the battle but to act ethically as well and so chaplains I believe I use that all the time that we are to go out with the with our units before them even into war into the battle to bring God's presence to them yes we often as chaplains we'll be able to go into spaces that nobody else can get into and some of those spaces are very chaotic and hectic and when the chaplain walks in there's actually a very visible change in the atmosphere that that people like oh the chaplains here it's going to be okay isn't it sometimes and it's just an amazing experience to see people's attitudes change not just they're not cursing anymore but that there's a sense of peace and like this is going to be okay for us is that great it's awesome so we'll get into the things that we need to get into but before we do you you mentioned General George Washington a lot of people don't realize that he was once a colonel in the British forces yes yes the Battle of Brandywine I mean he was one of the very few guys that survived that Bratik he was he was shot killed the losses were tremendous but Washington saw the hand of God and early on it was Washington who who was actually shot he was shot I say he was shot I have to be careful how I say this his his undercoat had received I think it's a five bullet marks and yet none of them hit his skin and that later came out in history that that later came out where this was being talked about Washington was president and he began to recite where he was when that happened and it's it's quite remarkable I can't help but believe that that had something to do with his his dependence upon God especially in battle because again you said it right it was his genesis of we need chaplains and then John Adams went and fought with Congress about funding we need to have funding for those chaplains they need to be paid but the remarkable thing and it kind of gets to where we're going today the chaplains were not just some some soldiers that were reading their Bibles or they happen to have gone to Sunday school these were the most educated guys in the entire group because they had their doctorates or their ministry degrees from schools like William and Mary Harvard Yale Princeton and they were military chaplains and they were not some country bumpkin but I find it remarkable that in an overwhelming vote Congress said yes absolutely we are going to fund this we're going to have these chaplains a lot of people don't realize that Washington was a very deeply committed spiritual man and I've read a lot I say I've read his mail I've read a lot of his own writings it was important to him that they would rise at 5am they would break camp they would often go 10 miles and then they would stop for breakfast and then service they would have the reading of scripture and prayer and it was something that was and you know the terminology I don't but it was the the general order of the day and what people don't appreciate this today I don't think but you had to go the general said you go and you go and but so many times he would be devoted to prayer stopping for prayer there's that famous I haven't in my office there's that there's that famous Freiburg Painting where Washington there at Valley forges on his knee yes praying and not only do we know that that took place but there's a man spying on Washington who witnessed not only him praying but that prayer was written down it was actually written down by the man who heard that prayer but that was Washington praying and private for the welfare of his troops so the qualifications come from none other than our own general Washington and first president so listen the difference between a civilian and yeah definitely the difference between a civilian I mean we do a lot of the same things I mean the the emphasis of a of a chaplain is built on relationships and so just like a police chaplain or a fire chaplain they are there in the station they're there on ridealongs with them to build that relationship with those police officers with those firefighters so that when something happens there there's not a stranger that they have to go to they're gonna go to you know Mike or they're gonna go to Jason or they're gonna go to whoever they know and trust with this information but those people are able to go home at night and into a civilian world and they may be volunteers or may be paid and so they have other jobs that they do as a military chaplain we are commissioned officers so we go through an officer candidate school or some type of officer commissioning program and we are active duty service members or reserves as well and that's our life now yeah we we go where the army or the Air Force or the Navy tells us to go and that's where we go and we could go for two to three to to four years to a duty station and then we're done and we move to someplace else and then we're done there we move to someplace else and so that could be our career for the 20 to 38 plus years and and that's our life we're not just in one place anymore and so we live and eat and breathe with those service members either on a ship or battalion and we're deployed around the world you know if we're on a ship could be on the aircraft carry or on a destroyer and we're there for you know sometimes at six seven eight months that we're on deployments and so we experience when a deployment and this goes for the Army too especially when Iraq and Afghanistan where they would be at extended month by month by month and so there's only supposed to be gone for six months and then all of a sudden they're they're gone for seven months and eight months and up to a year time frame that they're that they're gone and the chaplain is right there with them experiencing the same pain yes and hurt of not being able to go back to their family as just much as that private is wow and so we are you know what a picture we are members of the military what a powerful example because Christ did that he he left home and he was here right with us on deployment I see us Lewis put something in a mirror Christianity that we as believers have been deployed into enemy occupied territory is how he puts it but so did Jesus he came here for us and he's with us until the end for us in this modern day military that we're in how is the chaplaincy program viewed and I'm sorry I asked the question just because I've been tainted by recent rhetoric and and just the the atmosphere of politics does much does much politics invade the military chaplaincy world or are you somewhat we're so much insulated somewhat isolated from that I mean there's the the policies that you you hear about the DEI the pride stuff that is put out there by the military or by the the media and I think you've talked about that about how the media stirs up the pot a lot but you know down you know even as a captain and Navy captain it doesn't really kind of get down to us we don't see the the DEI stuff a lot that is talked about of that and yes the military celebrates pride month but there's other months that are celebrate too and as a chaplain we don't we are title 10 law states that we are to act and facilitate and provide according to our faith background so I don't have to do anything that is not in accordance with my faith tradition praise god and that's that's an effect right now that's an effect right now it's been effect for a long time it's nice that's actually written into title 10 I love it so when people say you know are there are there issues like yes but not really because you we see them but it's it's still not really affected to us so we can pray in Jesus name and not a problem do I do that all the time no I know my audience and there are other names for God that I like to use you know I and my prayers and you know in the in the name of our Almighty Creator and loving God amen yeah sometimes I'll use Jesus if if I know it's a specifically Christian person but I don't you know I don't feel like I have to end all my prayers yeah in specifically those words in Jesus name yeah agree and in that I don't know I'm sure you've thought about this but the audience needs to know that in your position you're in some ways you're very much like a Joseph or or a Joshua whereby you have been commissioned you are there but like with Joseph he's in a foreign environment Daniel Daniel Daniel Jeremiah where you need to proceed with wisdom and you know some people and I get it some people get stuck in the in the groove of well you've got to you got to have a crusade on the ship it doesn't work that way friendship evangelism is something that is actually much more difficult to establish because you've got to allow those Marines or those sailors are those soldiers to see your life when they see you going up and down you know the hallways or wherever you're at they've got to see your life they got to see the consistency obviously they see your rank which is warrants salute to you but then they also see a set of crosses on you and so that builds the moment or that opens the door for the moment for them to come and say hey listen I just got a letter from my wife and she's got cancer yes or whatever you're very much not only a pastor on board or deployed but when we say chaplain it's I I know what the word means but for me when I hear it it's evangelist pastor caregiver counselor counselor come for her at so many things that's the work of the Holy Spirit because if if a young man comes to you and says Captain I know that you know I'm gonna be heading into wherever and I'm starting to think eternal thoughts can you help me you immediately turn into a theologian you're immediately an evangelist apologist as well they come to us with questions of you know evolution and creation and so we've got to we've got to know all of those things and be ready you know in season and out season to be able to give an answer for the hope that lies within us at any moment for anything that comes our way and a lot of that is a reliance on the Holy Spirit I mean it totally reliance on the Holy Spirit you know it is it is an incarnational ministry that that you know Jesus came in the flesh to us to preach the word and to save our souls and we are kind of that incarnation to them as well in bringing Jesus to them and where they're at one of the scriptures that I use a lot is Jesus when he was with the woman at the well you know we only have a little bit of a short story I think there's a lot more to the interaction that happened with Jesus and the woman of the well and Jesus built upon a conversation with her building up a relationship bantering back and forth before he kind of delivered the blow yes that really opened her eyes and that's what we do too is we we build that relationship with them we can ban her back and forth with them so they're like oh his is a real person they're not just you know blowing smoke yeah that that this is somebody that I can have fun with and if there's a problem like you just said I can go to that person a question or a struggle that I'm having in my life I've got to ask you this so curious about this does it ever happen where someone who out ranks you comes and consult you as a chaplain yeah absolutely yes yes so that wall that wall for that moment goes down and this guy or this gal can come and we we minister to everybody from the lowest just like it is with my life as a pastor it's confidential and actually thanks for bringing it up our confidentiality level is 100% and again that's in title 10 law that we cannot share anything with anybody without the express and we'll say written permission that's right from the person that we're we're going to so even if they say that they've murdered somebody that's right or that they you know assaulted somebody or that they want to kill themselves we cannot share that with anybody else except by that telling us truly clergy congregant protection as it as it frankly always has been but yeah that's that's got to be something when hypothetically the admiral happens to be on board and says hey I'm having I'm having problems in my marriage yes I mean that has got to be an incredible opportunity that God brings but also this regarding the requirements I want you before we went on before we started rolling the camera we were talking about the requirements for a military chaplain and it's amazing and yet I see the the brilliance to it because as I said in the opening chaplains in the continental army these guys were Yale and Harvard graduates they were equivalent to you know the officers the senior officers that were you know with them yeah so letter audience know begin and add and for this reason everybody what if you know somebody who qualifies or maybe you qualify we're going to make sure that at the end of this podcast that we have the links provided for you to find out more but captain tell us tell us where does somebody begin what do they need to be so there's four basic things that the somebody needs and so that's a a bachelor's degree and a bachelor's can be degree can be in anything you know the Marine Coral like to say I've got my bachelor's degree in underwater basket weaving so it could be in anything so it could be a very very simple bachelor's degree but then you need to have a masters and 72 hours of theological coursework but for Christians they want you to have a master's of divinity and that can take a while so those are the two educational requirements that folks need to have and then for the church requirement is ordination that be an ordained pastor within their local congregation and then the endorsement and that's where we come into play to be able to give them that endorsement and the endorsement is the endorsing agency is the bridge between the local church or the church organization and the government the endorser is somebody who the government said we trust you to be able to find us qualified religious ministry professionals that have the bachelor's degree that have their master's degree and they are ordained and they have the requisite number of years as a pastor to be able to become and be commissioned as a naval or army or air force officer and become a chaplain and and so that's what the endorsers do so this is this is the request of the DOD this is a request of the DOD this is to a ordinate or a a ministry that's qualified to ordain for example cover chapel but the beauty of it i love this kind of stuff the beauty is it's the department of defense i'm going somewhere with this a little bit of apologetic it's the department of defense a division of the united states government that is looking to a church you know where i'm going to supply the department of defense qualified top shelf people which is so consistent with our nation's history and not the rhetoric of the day where is there's a separation of church and state we don't the two never mix there's i can't find an area where they were separated for for example you mentioned you mentioned my prayer in congress i was invited by a congressman to pray that's the requirements i had to check in with the capital chaplain why because there is no separation well the separation frankly everybody the separation the separation is that government will not get involved in the operation and the conduct of faith in america that's an extremely important thing regarding our first amendment but i i just i just love this because people can chatter all they want about their theory or their feelings but when when life hits people reach deep they they look for foundations and we've got such an illustrious history as a as a nation with chaplains and faith that it's refreshing to hear that the DOD once once the best they do and uh again you know it it goes back to law the constitution i mean the first amendment is uh talks about the the freedom of religion and which you just eloquently said it's not from not from four four four the freedom of of religion and and chaplains are specifically requested by the by the government by the military to go and be those providers of of that freedom of religion so i mean we do have uh pastors and priests and ministers we have imams uh Muslim imams we have Jewish rabbis we have Buddhist priests uh on on i do and what are their requirements because i understand the christian side if you get a doctorate in divinity or you need so much of theology for example in imam i guess there's a requirement sheet for those guys right it's the same thing basically it's the they have to have a bachelor's they have to have uh 72 hours of theological coursework um yes they have to be uh endorsed by their Muslim endorsing agency and they have to be you know whatever their religious qualification is we call it ordination sure whatever their religious qualification is they have to have that from their mosque or their religious system of worship yeah so it's it's no different those religious organizations to christian organizations we all have to have the same requirements uh to come into the military to be able to provide and you know we provide for our own we provide for christians but we facilitate for everybody else yeah and a lot of times people ask us how can you facilitate for a Muslim or how can you facilitate for a Buddhist or even Catholic you know how can you facilitate that's that's not us doing it that is us getting them in contact giving them opportunity giving them this is the allow me to interrupt this is the this is the first of all we don't live in a perfect world that's what heavens for but i love the security of the security of our founding fathers when they drew up the declaration of independence and the constitution and the bill of rights they could have said everybody's got to be a christian they could have each of them from their own by the way they were congregationalists they were in a Baptist they were Lutherans they were they could have each fought from their corner and said everyone's got to convert to be in a Lutheran before they can but nope they were so secure in coming to the foundations of their belief of the bible that they left alone the peripherals now don't think i'm not equating Christianity and and Islam as a peripheral issue i'm not saying that what i am saying is this that our founders were so secure that they gave us a government where everyone has the same rights this is remarkable because you don't have this in india you don't have this in any other parts of the world they're in other governments where our nation our founders were so secure in the fact that god Thomas Jefferson said the god of natural law where there's certain things written down within man that you cannot you can't legislate those things out man will speak for amendment and man will defend himself it's it's natural law second amendment but i love how secure they were in the founding of this nation and its laws that even the atheist has the exact same rights as the christian or the muslim or the jew isn't that radical that is awesome he said are you endorsed in islam of course not but in america the muslim has the freedom to preach his islam you see i don't like that well then preach Christianity but he gets to preach his islam do i believe in islam not at all but i do believe in his freedom to preach it only an american yes can can fight i can go to war and fight for the jews ability to to preach Judaism in the muslim or the atheist that's it's just such an amazing experiment that god has given us in this country but i want you to i want you to i think i'm going to repute you somewhere about the requirements or did you get them all out i think we got them all out but i when i didn't get out with the the chaplain candidate program yes as well so so that's to become a a chaplain so maybe you're not there yet but this is interesting to you this is interesting to you and you're like i'm interested in becoming a chaplain but i don't have any of those things where do i start nice and so the the place where you start is you know reaching out to us and we will help you on your path to become a chaplain it can be a long process when i left active duty in 1996 the marine core i thought it was going to take me because i didn't have anything i didn't have a bachelor's degree i have a master's degree i wasn't ordained and what is this endorsement thing not a clue yeah and so i thought it was going to take me you know four years for a bachelor's three years for a master's degree it's 90 hours and then two years of pastoral experience that's up to nine years god god is so good i completed in about five and a half that nine year process because of everything every door that he opened to me was just incredible so you know people who know me like you did what and how long like it's god yes absolutely totally god so it's there is a process to it but if god is calling you do it he will get you through it amen and as pastor Chuck you say if it's god's will it's god's bill yeah that's right that's good that's good that was the my motto going through through school so the chaplain candidate program you can start anywhere you know you know we have to reach out to us get started in your bachelor's degree work with your local church on becoming a part of the leadership and going through their training program that would lead up to ordination and then once you've completed your bachelor's and you get into your master's degree that's when you can submit for the actual chaplain candidate program and at that time all three services the army navy in the air force have chaplain candidate programs and you can become commissioned as a reserve officer in the military and go through your master's program and they'll send you through the chaplain school of that service and you get paid military pay for going off to that chaplain school excellent and you begin to accumulate points for retirement and you're an inactive reserve officer at that point and then once you complete your master's divinity and you complete your your nation that's when you would come to us again of course we're going to keep in contact with folks all the time now see where you're at how things go on do you need anything help and then you can submit for endorsement to on to active duty for your initial three years yeah so give us a day in the life of a navy chaplain that would be kind of hard I'll give you the general sense because we've got chaplains with the navy seals we've got chaplains on ships we've got chaplains so when we deploy some seals there's a chaplain with them or there's a chaplain that says goodbye to them as they go off somewhere there's a chaplain that's with them they now they don't kick down the doors that's not our job and we are non-combatants yeah that's something we need to talk about off camera I've always wanted a voice that's the part that stumbles me I hope I don't I'm going to I'm just going to be honest everything you're telling me sounds fantastic but from what I remember is chaplains don't they're not armed correct we are not combatants that's that's the problem I have I mean if I'm going to go I mean David had a sword man it's kind of like kind of like Jonathan and his and his servant his armor bearer and so we have armor bearers that you know even though Jonathan you know he's the one that kicked bud we can't do that and we're not going to be like for the most part we're not going to be put in those situations but we have a religious affairs specialist or religious program specialists that is our you know you take the church staff and you roll it up in one person that's our one person yeah and so they set up for services they you know we'll do the bulletins they do set up for services I think I said that already they're the administrative support but they're also our bodyguards and so they're the ones that carry the the weapons but but does the chaplain still go through all the rigors though of being a sailor or a marine you got to do the same physical stuff absolutely yes we don't go through their boot camp we go through officer commissioning school but it's still we've got you know for the for the navy we still have Marine Corps enlisted folks yes that will take us through our paces you okay you know so it's not just you know knife and fork school as they say yeah you're going to get the physical training and then once you get out what we call out to the fleet yeah then you better be training with your unit yeah you are like we say we're it's incernational if they're going through the mud you're going through the mud if they're you know jump it out of out of planes it's it would be who view to to get your qualifications jump out of planes too wow it's amazing so yes all the training we we should be doing all those things that they are doing there must be I'm guessing there must be an incredible level of respect by these other marines or sailors who look at this guy and he's committed a hundred percent like you are and he's going with you into battle but he's there for your spiritual welfare and at least you have equipment to protect yourself with this guy's leaning on God hey man yes yes I mean it's got to be an incredibly moving fixture to have that individual near you or with you I would be so absolutely and it's it's credibility we know we would we'd call building building cred you build cred credibility by doing those things that everybody else is doing if they're in pain you should be in pain if they're rejoicing you know as Paul says you know rejoice with those rejoice and and we've with those who we we should be right there with them them seeing us like chap you you're doing this like I'm doing this absolutely you know are there any other nations that have a military uh process like this the same as the US do the brits or the Israeli yes I mean the brits have a lot of uh countries do have chaplaincy and uh different you know variations of of the same thing the Philippines has chaplaincy Australia New Zealand Israel has has chaplaincy you know it's rabbis um but uh but they do have called religious ministry professionals okay that uh that are brought into the military to support their military members so yes the United States is not alone and in fact I've heard that um Ukraine is now asking for our support um and actually that's through um how um to create a chaplaincy themselves so West Bentley's organization okay uh has been asked to go over there and provide uh help yeah I think Uganda he does Uganda as well so there's a lot of countries that are out there that have chaplaincies um that provide you know that that spiritual if I can use that term um fitness uh for their uh for their the soldiers and service members I was uh just kind of interesting now I'm trying to put some pieces together so I was in uh I was in DC and um it was just table talk no microphones no cameras there's a there's a there's a handful of guys army there's some army guys around there's some reans around and um they got going now I'm just listening and uh what you're telling me and what the the word that popped in my head was this camaraderie this this life unit where this one uh delta force guide began to talk about what had happened to them they were in the jungles of central america actually at the time and there was one of the one of the rangers or one of the delta uh was wounded needed blood and I was impressed because for them to keep that guy alive until help could come and maybe you know what this is called he said it I don't remember but they had they they they zipped open this uh sterilized packet they stuck a needle in his arm right of course they they've got the bleeding under control the much as they could and his his fellow soldiers stood around him as he's laying on the ground and they each had they each had their needle this is my mixture but they took their blood because they're standing up the elevation the height they're pumping their blood into him and they went around and they did that to him until help could arrive yes and I was so impressed because they were talking about oh remember this oh remember when when we did that and I just thought how much should the church hear that kind of talk when you talk about laying down your life for your brother each of these delta they were doing that by giving their own blood and I just thought my goodness that's just absolutely powerful and who's to say it wasn't mentioned but who's to say if there wasn't a chaplain in that circle giving blood on the spot to keep somebody alive absolutely amazing so I'm curious in modern day news right now with what's going on supposedly right Israel there's a very famous British general who has a I think he's on a Prager U five-minute video about Israel's morality as a military that it's the most moral military on the planet now look I'm all for Israel but I'm thinking I mean you mean second to America right second to America but of course can you speak a little bit and I have to tell you Captain I'm going somewhere with this can you speak into the morality of the US Armed Forces who are we as a airman or a sailor or a soldier what who is that individual military context the morality that they've been taught before they're deployed kind of a tough question how can I answer this so we are working with society society is where we get our men and women that then go through boot camp and are then hate to even use this word but transitioned from a civilian mindset to a a military mindset and so that's where they get to know the service and the values of the service and you know in the service you know it's it is about honor courage and commitment but those can be also vague words in themselves what does that mean and so to be able to take them and to get them to understand what that means from a military context and then how do you take that and live that out in your life both before deployment and while during deployment and so that's where chaplains you know are a great place because we are you know not just religious but we are moral and ethical and we try to instill or or build upon that ethics and that moral that was established with them in boot camp now that that that morality unless they went to church in boot camp is just a military moral sense it's kind of like ethics ethics has been taken over by the legal system yeah and this is what is legally ethical to do and so you can do all of this but really is it you know morally ethical to do as well so isn't that something we are we are there's still a struggle going on to be able to get them to understand that it's more than just the legal you can do this yeah to there's a higher law that we are to live by not just the the legal stuff but there's a higher moral yeah ethics that we should be living by well it's fascinating because I bring it up because Israel in the US Great Britain you can be battling it out with your enemy and uh you got him uh but rather than you know he's he's laying there wounded uh rather than walk up and and put a 40 45 in his head uh we call we call for a medic yes for the enemy for the the the moment that you shot him and he's not dead you turn from combat to friend is that amazing it i mean we are really the only ones that do that now we're going down to path this gets me excited to me that is a display of the nature of God hear me out we're all against uh we all look for the day that peace comes and there's no more wars that's when Jesus Christ returns in the meantime we are to be equipping our military to be the very best at what they do and I want to make this really clear this is something that's very very passionate in my heart and I don't think it gets set enough um and that is we train our soldiers our our military to be the best of what they do to be effective to be efficient at it and to get the job done absolutely mission complete and then come on home that mission complete often deals with the absolute eradication of the enemy the complete destruction of whatever is necessary to stop the war and we're talking about morality where we train we train our military to be lethal listen we train them to be killers we're supposed to because in war people are killed because we don't often think about that we've got people who for example ignorantly remember this happened during the Vietnam era we train these kids to go kill they're supposed to then they came home and they were labeled murders and that now I was young but that caused my blood to boil and it still causes it to boil in this day and age still when if today somebody were to say uh I'm an Iraqi veteran oh you mean you're a murderer that just that's look that really test my Christian my Christian and witness because there's nothing wrong in fact I think there's everything righteous righteous in training the soldier to prosecute warfare ethically to the fullest and if that's killing the opponent this is the theater of war which god has sanctioned don't ever confuse I know he doesn't people don't ever confuse the Ten Commandments and thou shalt not murder listen with thou shalt not kill there are versions of in English the Ten Commandments out there that says thou shalt not kill the Bible never says thou shalt not kill the Bible says you shalt not murder it's actually the Ten Commandments that sanctions by using the word murder sanctions war the god of the Bible sanctions war you say how terrible is that no excuse me how practical is that because god knows that wars will not cease until he returns and so if you're being invaded it is a godly thing to defend your borders it's a godly thing to defend your family god expects you to do that so some people who have a I don't know what you call it a theoretical view of what peace looks like or what war shouldn't be like um they miss they miss the the the whole thing that god says in the Bible if you do not provide for your family you're worse than a non-believer and because we live in the affluent west at west we're so stupid in thinking well I provide for my family I bring them a check every week that's not what he's talking about that's that's that's a given if somebody comes to your front door with the machete or a shotgun to take your family the Bible says they're from that verse if you do not provide for your family you're worse than a non-believer that guy's to be taken out oh I don't believe in that brother I believe in being passive and you're going to let this person destroy your children and rape your wife that's there's nothing godly about that so as a culture how do oh you know how do you justify this wait wait wait wait Jesus Christ himself is the king of kings and lord of lords the bible says that when he returns israel's going to say where did you get these robes that are splattered in blood and he says these robes that are splattered in blood I received alone by myself there was none to help me as I tread out the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of almighty god Exodus 15 verse 3 I believe it is says the Lord is his name the Lord is a warrior that shocks people who have this passive new port beach version of Jesus that he just goes surfing and then feeds people there's there's this thing to righteousness that until christ returns is found tragically in this thing called war it's hard for us it is and you know it's it's a struggle that we have to go to war at times because there is evil in the world and you can't just let evil do its thing and rampage across the the world and not do anything right he like you said he's established government for righteousness and you know when there is unrighteousness then the government has to take action talk about morality within you know the us british and and israel you know we we go and definitely israel in this current war goes above and beyond trying to make sure that the accuracy of you know the information that they're receiving and the accuracy of their targeting and and then you know the actual implementation of the the weapons is spot on yes and that's why it's important to have you know the precision guided weapons that that can do that when they are hiding within the civilian population that's right so the morality is there in a sense of that you know again legalistic and even morality that try to only focus on combatants and not on the innocence that is in there and so the the the chaplain plays a integral role in those planning sessions and in those meetings there are chaplains in those in those planning sessions we are we are there to be able to say can i you know just mention that there is these civilians here or there's this mosque here or there's this church here and if you do that there's going to be you know some consequences and i just want you to be able to think about that yeah so chaplains are in those high level meetings and planning sessions of for the implementation of war so that there's not an excess that that happens yep and so we take care of folks before they go out as they go out and then when they come back as well yeah that we are there to help them to put those pieces back together and to give an understanding and meaning to what they just did yeah yeah because i'd never i would never want to have them confused with killing versus murdering and those are big conversations that we have a huge deal that's a huge deal an officer a police officer in the city uh takes out a guy who's got a a dagger this i'm actually talking about something that has really happened with someone here at this church um where he was called onto a scene and there was a guy whose background uh his religion in history it's he's got a uh cemetery to the throat of a young lady hair pulled back blade there wow and he he he was in the authority to say listen anyone has a clear shot take him but don't take him until you have a clear shot and somebody had a clear shot and they took him out save that woman's life that that officer was given the medal of honor for that city that's exactly what what our soldiers and airmen and our sailors are doing and so i just don't appreciate a culture that mixes that up i we must never allow that to happen that's something that we cannot and so um military i sleep at night i can i can do what i'm doing right now because there's men and women that have signed up to lay down their life to be uncomfortable to be in a foreign place uh to be in a situation that allows me to do what i'm doing here right now to me that is that is like being a follower of christ it's a life that's that's that's worthy of of my life to give it's and i listen if you're if you're a young person today i hope i think one of the greatest things that you're lacking in your youth is that you don't have something larger than your life did you know that's an honorable thing to be living for a cause that's larger than your life and um america's walking around these days with a black eye because we've punched ourselves in the face i mean who punches themselves in the face but we've done that in our history we've done that in our culture and everybody that is yelling about how bad of a place america is it's funny they're still living here and you know it's interesting i travel a lot i get tremendous amount of respect uh first off because if people don't know if i happen to be in some other part of the world they don't know the pastor the first the first experience of respect that i get is that i'm an american well there's everybody hate americans no actually they don't you know that's just that's media span man again today's june 6th and a lot of you who are watching this in europe right now uh if it wasn't for this day in history we would all be speaking german well the world would have been reduced to two languages japanese and german if today didn't happen in history and um can i tell you something maybe this kind of a little off-color go for it i was in um i was in london we had about 45 people with this we were doing street evangelism and were helping out a brand new church plant just outside the city and there are some huligans there were some six or seven guys walking by and this is after after the event and so there was a handful of us walking and uh there was the six or seven of them walking and we passed each other they could hear our accent and so uh they they said something about um our um american you should get your american out of here and i was twice the guys twice their age but i i turned around and i said excuse me excuse me you guys got hey excuse me they came back and they got ready for a fight i couldn't fight i had my bible there were Christians around god was watching i walked right up to them though and i said my family my dad came from the america that you just cursed to see to it that you had the freedom to mouth off to me like you just did my my my family laid their life down for you to to not be speaking german right now and all of them said i'm sorry sir you're please please forgive us they immediately got their history lesson and somewhere though they remembered somewhere they were told and i had the honor of of listening to now he's in he's in heaven now but congressman zeal miller and he was talking about how this is so cool how after nineteen forty four forty five we had the power the united states had the power to literally take over the entire world no one could stop us nobody if america's so bad how come the globe still has nations it's because we're not an occupier we're a liberator and i just thought oh my gosh that's so true we had the atomic power we had the will power we had the the the wherewithal the industrial might the industrial might to literally conquer the world america could have achieved that which despots dream about we didn't do it no we gave japan back to japan and we gave germany back to the germans the the yeah you know france isn't the 52nd state it could have been but it's not closing remarks how do people connect with you guys it's fascinating it's awesome i wish i was younger uh do a pitch get get get get get get the word out there yeah so yes uh if i made two things one we are making a pitch for chaplains and all those requirements that i talked about but as you we're talking about the younger generation we do need christians uh in the military so i know there's a lot of people out there they're they're telling their their sons and their daughters don't go into the military because of what's going on but i'm going to say just the opposite because of what's going on we need young men and young women who are strong in their faith to be able to come in and live that faith out certain things you can and cannot do but you can you can live your faith out strongly in the military and be an influence um you can be a joshua that that is just a leader within the community and people are going to see it and people notice it and people are going to uh come to you for that so we do need uh millet uh young men and women of strong christian faith to come into the so where you can find us is we have a facebook page calvery chapel chaplains very simple calvery chapel chaplains and um you know we respond to the facebook messages all the time and can help you out there but we also have an email address and that email address is calvery chaplains you'll put it up on your your site first appreciate that i want to make sure i spell it out right at gmail.com and those are right now the only two places that that we have we're working with the calvery chapel association to get a web page uh specific uh tab up there that is military chaplains and and so we're very hopeful for that um and that would be the third place to be able to come to but uh and chino hills uh please it's been very very supportive and very helpful for us as well and get you in contact with us. Yeah. Captain Dennis Wheeler it's an honor brother. Thank you. Thank you for all your years of service i thank you for my freedom and uh for all that you're doing to the king of god. Thank you for all that you're doing for us and the military and and for our government leadership as well. Can you stand together? Yes. God bless you. Thank you too. This jack hips podcast as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibs.com to learn more and stay connected.