Remembering Charlie Kirk

Real life presents the Jack Hibb's podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. The moments leading up to Charlie Kirk's assassination. We're on our way to UVU that morning in the car. Charlie gets footage on his phone of the crowd. He shows it to me. I'm looking at it. It's like an amphitheater. I said to him, Charlie, I don't like this place. There's too many buildings. I either got the first call from you or from Mikey. He said, Jack, get everyone in the world praying. There's so much blood. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibs.com slash podcast. Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us, that's like saying amen or yes. Then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibb's. So this is not only a cathartic moment for you and I that we've decided to make public here in this podcast. The moments leading up to Charlie Kirk's assassination, I say martyred him. You agree with that? I know. You and I haven't had a chance to talk. You've been so busy since that moment and we both enjoyed a friendship with him. You hit the ground running to fill that gap in the void and you've been doing an amazing job. And I went the other way. So many people were talking about Charlie and everybody was his friend and long time buddy and everybody was his pastor. And I just kind of stepped back in the sense of watching things play out but trying to honor a friend of a young man in the faith where what comes to my mind Frank is not that I'm a Paul or that you are a Paul but Charlie would have looked at us like a Paul. Him being the Timothy and he was such a precious student of the word but let's talk. The amazing thing that day that the last picture that I took with Charlie, your brother was between us. Because when we got to UVU and got out of the SUV, he was there. And Charlie took pictures with all the TPSA kids that were lined up and then your brother was there and he goes, I'm Jack Gibbs brother. That's what they heard. You used to call him a mountain man. What's his name again? But that's not his real name. Burton. And so he introduced himself and the last picture, formal picture that's probably Charlie took was with him and me. Here's the backstory to that. So my brothers lived in Utah for years and we have to make sure that this doesn't get out but he looks like a mountain man and he's all over the terrain. I'm going to give you the picture you can put it in. Some people would say that he is a covert military operative for the CIA and in conjunction with the Musad. He loves the mountains. So he had months to reach out to me to say, hey, can you give me a chance to meet Charlie and to get a decent seat. But no, he calls me the night before. Oh yeah. And he goes, hey, can you. And I say, well, I mean, I'll give Charlie a call but it's going to lay, you know, and all that stuff. And I'm thinking, so I honestly reach out to Charlie. He said, Charlie, listen, my brother lives nearby. He wants to come see you. I know that's a, this is, you got too much going on right now. But I was faithful to give you his request. God bless you tomorrow. So the next thing I know, that's how I found out is that he sent me that picture. And my first thought was this, wow, I got to thank Charlie for going above and beyond. And for you, Frank, to be there, here's my brother sandwiched in between two rocks. And then so I went about my morning, not long. And I'm trying to remember the sequence of things. I either got the first call from you or from Mikey. It was one or the other. It was very, very close. I do believe you were the first one. That was after we got to the hospital. Okay, then I got the first call from Mike. The emergency room after we got Charlie there. I recall you. I remember what you were saying. Yeah. Okay, so Mikey, Mikey called. And he said. He said, Jack, get everyone in the world praying. There's so much blood. There's so much. It's, and he was beside himself. You can imagine. Man, in that moment, when I got that, I didn't believe it. Then I facetimeed you. I faced, we were talking. You? So I'd blood on me. So my brother, my brother calls, and he's can't talk. He said, Charlie's been shot. Now listen, I have, there's, I have a relative whose name's Charlie. And he's very involved in politics and he's all over the United States. And I thought it was Charlie, because in Charlie got shot. And I said, and I actually said, what do you do now? What did he do now? And he said, Charlie Kirk got shot. And I said, what? And he couldn't, he just broke down. I actually hung up on him. And I started making calls. Your call came in, which was a facetime call. And yeah, you had blood on you. Yeah, that's still, I haven't, I haven't just thought, I don't even know if I've been meditated in all of that. And then of course I went, because it was online everywhere, I saw the whole thing. And, but you right away got a prayer chain going, and then that happened that about 12, 30, you told time. And so that's within six hours you were preaching about it. That's right. And that message that night was well done. Charlie Kirk. And as horrific as that martyrdom was, that assassination was, we know that Charlie didn't feel a thing. He went from doing what he loved the absolute most to entering glory painlessly, instantly. And I think of the mercy of God and the goodness of God in that. But the young man, we were talking before going on camera right now, how there was a transformative shift in Charlie's life regarding faith. I don't mean, I don't mean he came to faith. He came to faith in the fifth grade. Yeah, yeah. What I mean is there was a transformation in him seen that Christianity is viable in any sphere and any culture at all times. And Charlie, we had hours of elongated discussions over Jack, how do you biblically justify voter registration and be voting? How do you do that? Everybody I talk to tells me that I need to talk to you guys because you guys with Gina Gleason leading the the spear on this, you guys been doing this for decades. How do you do this? How do you, what's the deal? And he honestly was asking. You know, you know this, he was always so teachable. Right. And Charlie, this is the reason why. These are the verses. Why? And the citizens saying, yeah, but that's one man's interpretation. Charlie said, I didn't know that. And you watched that. Like, I think you said before camera, like 2019. 2019 is probably when he really realized that a Christian should be a Christian 24, 7, 365, 360 degrees every area of life. And he reached out to me in January of 2020 saying he had been watching our videos and was blessed by them. Could we meet? And so we met that shortly thereafter and he wanted me to mentor him in Christian apologetics. And as you know, Jack, it could be difficult to mentor someone smarter than you, but not in Charlie's case. You know, the few things I didn't know he wanted to know because the only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility. Right. Remarkably so. And he had many mentors. You were a mentor. He had mentors everywhere. He was smart. He had men porn into his life. Right. And the great thing about Charlie, it's not that we, I mean, look, I mean, I'm not taking anything away from him doing the opposite. But you and I are both busy people. Charlie never came to us and said, please, please, please, please, will you mentor me? Will you be my pal? Why you and I responded and so many people responded to him as mentors is that you could not walk away from his hunger and passion for truth. No, I told him several times. I've been waiting for somebody like you for 30 years. When I started to get, when I would seminary 30 something years ago, I said, where is the guy out there who is so connected in the secular world, but will never compromise on the gospel and will ensure that the two go together, that he wants to influence the secular world with the gospel politically, culturally, morally, socially, he wanted to do that. And I, you know, you see Christians in politics all the time and they mentioned God in a kind of an ambiguous way. You know, they don't, they kind of sidestepped Jesus, they sidestepped the gospel. Yeah, it's terrible. Charlie was just like a blowtorch right on it. And he's going to get rewards ultimately for that. Yeah, absolutely. And I know right now he senses, wow, for 31 years, in fact, I said this at, I know if it was at the memorial or at Amphus, I said it was tragic. The Charlie was taking us, taken from us after 31 years, but he accomplished more in 31 years than any 10,000 people I know who have lived for 80. Exactly correct. It's equally tragic, perhaps more so to live 80 years and do nothing for. I had this similar thought and I framed it this way in my own head. There are people who can say that they've been a Christian for say 60 years, but they've got about one year experience that repeats about every year. It's the same thing. They don't grow beyond the one year, but they've been a Christian for 60 years. Paul said to the Corinthians, you're going to make it in, you're going to make it in. And then there are those who like Charlie lived a short period of time, but they put down about maybe a hundred years of influence, of experience in 31 years. I remember you said something right after this happened, Jack, I've never forgotten it. You said if Charlie lived 250 years ago, he'd be normal. Do you remember saying that? Of course I do. Yes, I do. Explain that. Yeah, so Charlie's understanding what you just articulated about the gospel not being parsed out or segregated to areas of life, but everywhere. You and I have read our founding fathers. In fact, I'm sometimes more at home reading my founding fathers' private papers because I feel like I know them. And they're dead, so they can't change their mind, they can't go woke. And they don't have a podcast, so that's really great. So when you looked at Charlie in my mind, I dropped them into maybe I don't know, 1770, 1774, 76, 1780, 89, Charlie fit perfectly. He would have been John Adams and him would have been best of friends. There was so much alike that way. Yeah, normal. And Adams knew that our government was made for only, our constitution was made for only religious and moral people. It is inadequate. Holy inadequate. Holy inadequate for the governance of any other. Yeah. Completely true. And Charlie knew that. Yeah, you knew that. Charlie wanted to spread the gospel and save his country. Yeah. You know, one of the, we have a mutual friend of gosh, I'm kind of, I'm freak out right now. So let's, let's kind of exaggerate this in a sanctified form. Here's Charlie Kirk. And by the workings of God, there are people that are coming into Charlie's life by whatever means. It happened and you can name them. But what, but my lane is so narrow, but in that lane, there, there's the man Frank Turk that I've known for so long and good friend and. So Charlie, Charlie winds up somehow you guys wind up connecting. And then either you or I or somebody said, you got to, Charlie, you got to talk to Bill Federer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, wait. Well, what? It just keeps expanding. Yeah. So it's, it's Turk. It's Federer. It's, it's Prager. It's all of these people pouring into the man. That's right. And that's just the hand of God. And so you said that. So yeah. I mean, it's a perfect example that if, if we're open and willing to learn, because you remember Charlie would say learn something new every day. Just learn something new every day. The wise listen, he would say. Oh, yeah. Those are just paraphrased right out of Proverbs. Yeah. But can you, are you comfortable enough to share some of the, you, you guys walked a lot? Yeah. Are you okay to check the public? Yeah. We, um, in the summer of 2025, uh, Charlie wanted to get ready for the tour. And the first event was, was Utah. And so on four occasions, he and I got together in Phoenix to, we would just sit around and talk about issues. He wanted to talk about that he wanted to be better at answering questions on campus. And sometimes it would be just him and me. Sometimes it'd be me, him, Mikey, Blake, Neff, Danny Philip. These are people in TPUSA. And, uh, the last event we had was, he went out to Japan. I don't know if you remember this. He went to Japan in Korea. Absolutely. Right. Like in the beginning of September. And we were together in the beginning of August for the third event. And he said, Hey Frank, um, the first event is September 10th. And I'm going to be in Japan and, and Korea. Like on the ninth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll work. It'll work out great. So we would get together during the day for a couple of hours, two, three hours. And, you know, he'd be working. I'd be working. And then we get together. And then after he and Erica put the kids down, he'd say, Hey, let's go on a walk. And we do this every time I was in Phoenix. And the last walk we had was Monday night. The murder happened on Wednesday. And we probably walked for 90 minutes. Always with a 300 pound bodyguard behind us, arm bodyguard. We'd walk around his neighborhood. And there are three things we talked about that night, Jack. We spent most of our time on. The first was, of course, government and Islam. He's concerned about Islam coming and imposing Sharia law on us. And we all ought to be concerned about that because that's the history of Islam. Another name that goes in there, he reached out to me sometime before that. And I connected in with Jay Smith. Jay Smith, yes. And apostate prophet, Rydvier Adaman. Adamir, Rydvier Adamir, who I've become friendly with. And Adam on the show several times. So he had a peon with apostate prophet. And Jay's amazing too. In any event, so we're talking about that. I talked a little bit with him about the Islamic dilemma. You know, the Islamic dilemma. You know, if you get a Muslim up there, you ought to ask the Muslim, why does the Quran say, obey the Bible on one hand? Yet on another hand, it says. Fill it all. It disagrees with the Bible. It says Jesus Christ in the dead. Jesus is the Word. Yeah. We had a beginning and it's limited. No, it's a dilemma they can't get out of. And the two chapters right next to one another. In surah 5 verse 68, it says, oh you people of the book, you have no ground to stand on, unless you stand on the Torah and the gospel. So it's saying to the Jews and Christians at the time, believe what the Bible says. Yet in the chapter before in surah 1, surah 4 verse 157, it says Jesus didn't rise from the dead because he didn't die. He was dead and straight to heaven. It wasn't crucified. So here's the problem for the Muslims. If the Bible's true, we know the Quran is false. But if the Bible's false, the Quran is still false. Yeah. Because it's telling that... It leans on the Scripture. Yeah, yeah. So Muslims don't know how to get out of that. So Charlie and I talked about that quite a bit that night. The second thing he wanted to talk about was the resurrection. And how can we show in a succinct way during Q&A that the resurrection really occurred? So we went through that. Yes, I love it. And you've argued that wonderfully in your messages. Sure. And there's really only two facts you need to show to show that Christianity is true, mere Christianity. Number one, God exists. Number two, Jesus rose from the dead. Yeah. If those two things are true, it's actually easy to show the Bible's the Word of God. Rest of it's downhill. Yeah, it's downhill. It's easy. So we talked about that for a while. Then the last thing we talked about, Jack, and we were doing laps on the top of his building, talking about this. He was really concerned that his generation was not embracing marriage. The men were, the women were not. Yeah. He said, I'm glad the men are moving in marriage's direction. Yeah. But the women are not. And why are they going to listen to me? Yeah. And everybody out there who is a woman talking about this is a career woman. Yeah. They could see the mild contradiction. Exactly. So we didn't come up with a solution to that problem that night. But ironically, it could be that Erika, once this trial is over and all this nonsense that's being talked about with conspiracy theories goes away, hopefully it will. She's going to be the one that women are going to look to and say, wow. Look at, look at how she has handled herself through all this with grace and elegance. And she, all she wanted to do was take care of her children. And she's still taking care of her children, even though she's doing what her husband wanted her to do. Yeah. But stop. And it didn't dawn on me until after this happened, Jack. Charlie was talking about the three institutions that God has stepped on. Wow. He was talking about government. Government. He was talking about church and marriage. And marriage. No, no, no. Yeah, government church in marriage. The three sacred institutions found in the script. He was such a, he was such a strategic thinker that when we're having a conversation about the issues that he wants to get better at, he automatically goes to the big three. I believe that's evidence of a sanctified heart in mind. Yes. Meaning the Holy Spirit was welcomed to use him and thus Charlie thought and talked the truth of Scripture. And he knew something that you said many years ago. And that was don't be two thirds of a Christian. Oh, yes. Don't be just about marriage and the church. I mean, that's important family church, obviously. But don't forget about government. Yeah. God established government. Yeah. And God put government in place to punish wrongdoers and protect innocent people from evil. And if we don't do that, we are giving up on God's institution. That's right. So Charlie. Wow. Yep. And that final night. Man. That's what he was talking about, Jack. That's what he was talking about. And me had one other thing. And this, by the way, is all going to be in a book that we just wrote doesn't come out to September called the War on Reality. Great. Recovery, recovering truth in a world that celebrates lies. The first chapter is all about what we're talking about right now. The whole books in honor of Charlie started writing it before the whole book shifted after the murder. I mentioned to you. Sorry. No, I just want to complete the thought because the next day. So Monday night. We're out on a walk. Next day. September night. Charlie calls a meeting a scheduled zoom meeting with two officials in Israel. One Jewish defender of Israel in the United States. I'm in the room with Charlie Blake's in the room. Mikey's in and out. What do you think we're talking about, Jack? I know. We are talking about how the propaganda war against Israel is gaining ground even though it's all lies in deception. And Charlie is asking these guys, how can I better defend the truth regarding Israel? You guys helped me with that. That's right. I was in this meeting. It lasted 50 minutes. This idea that Charlie was given up on Israel as false. Not only as a false, but I'm going to be off on time. I'll just say this. Before that, Charlie had asked me as the cutest thing ever. My phone rang. It's Charlie. What's up? Hey, can you give me a sermon that you've done that just kind of brings everything together about Israel's existence and the promises of God and its future? And I said, no. I said, Charlie, you're talking great questions, buddy. You're talking about sermons from the Bible. I don't have a sermon. I have hundreds of sermons on this. And he goes, well, I'm boning up on this quick. I need something. And I told him. I said, look, you read like a fish swims through water. And I told him to get isriology by Arnold Fruttenbaum. Oh, Fruttenbaum. Yes, of course. Read the book. And the other book, I forget it. The author is, but it's called Startup Nation. But he wrote those down. He said, I'm writing them down. And I sent him a couple of, you may not remember this guy. He's a West Coast guy. But a guy by the name of Chuck Missler. I know Chuck. I was in Israel with Chuck. My gosh. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Chuck Missler had tremendous logic and scripture on, in fact, I got this. I say this, but I don't give a check the credit. If God doesn't keep his promises to Israel, then we have no promises as a church. I got that from him. And so, yeah, no, no, the audience needs to know that. I don't care what people are saying about Charlie. They're using him. They pimped him to try to advance their own anti-Semitic views or hatred or whatever it is about Israel. And they tried to use him. And that's a very, very, it's beyond, it's beyond. Here is a distinction we talked about. And Charlie, in fact, when I said this to him, he said, wow, this is worth the whole trip. Because we were talking about blessing Israel. Now, what does that mean? Right. Does that mean that you have to agree with everything the secular government says? No. And I said, no, that's not what it means. Exactly. Because if you want to bless somebody, you tell them the truth. Yeah. If you want to bless your child, you don't agree with everything your child does. That's right. You acknowledge and you protect the existence of the child. You still feed him? Yes, yes. You might get disciplined, but you're still fed. That's right. That's right. So, I mean, what's the proverb, Jack? I think it's in Proverbs 27. It says, it says, wounds from a friend are good, but an enemy multiplies kisses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always. So wounds from a friend. They were compliments. You want wounds from a friend. Yes. People tell you when you're off base. That's right. So we talked about that and she said, wow. That really opens it up because I thought blessing meant you had to agree with everything. No, no, no, no, no. Where did that come from? Let's be honest. Yeah. I know you have ever thought that Genesis 12, 1 and 2 meant that. We never thought that. No, we never thought. Well, bless is matter what they do. But we have to agree with them. Where did you get that thinking? That's a bizarre thought. Well, of course not. You don't agree with everything. One other objection that comes up. Well, you can't support them. They're apostate. Hey, souls 90% of the church. No, I was looking at the pulp of America. I was going to say Jack or Charlie, hilarious, Charlie. On every king of the Northern kingdom was apostate and only a handful from the Judah were good. And God still valued their existence. But there was a point where he said, that's enough. Yeah. You're going to be judged. Yeah. You know, the nation of Israel, as it stands out, might be judged. Yeah, absolutely. It could go out of existence and come back again. We know this. We know this from Scripture. Yeah. That, oh, 2000 years ago they were dispersed throughout all the world. And God says, no, just what are the chances? 2000 years ago, they're dispersed throughout all the world. Deuteronomy 28 said that that's what would happen if they rejected his law, his word. Personify his word. The nation, the national leaders, a lot of people think. This is sad. That on the day of Palm Sunday, when the people shouted Hosanna, Hosanna. And then by the end of the week, they're yelling crucify and crucify him. There's some lazy theology there where we automatically think because it sounds kind of cute. Everybody who welcomed him on Palm Sunday turned around and said crucify him later that week. We don't know that. It doesn't say the same crowd. There could have been a mix. Here's what we know. Is that the national leaders of Israel refused Christ as king. But even that was prophesied what happened, right? What do you say, Jack, what do you say that? Because on the day of Pentecost, the church was a bunch of Jews. Yeah, this is why I say the church was Jewish. This is why I say this. And then it went to the world. This is why I say people say, I can't trust those. I can't trust this book because it was written by Christians. No, it wasn't. There are no Christian sources in the body. Exactly. They all started as Jews. And they didn't walk around with the New Testament. Paul turns. Let me go to Thessalonians. So the thing is this, that God has made these promises. And the first start is glorious because in Genesis 3.15, he says, I'm paraphrasing now. I mean, I can quote it exact. But the meaning out paraphrase is, hey, things are messed up. Thank you, Adam and Eve. Boy, you should ruin this whole gig. However, I have a plan. From your seed, the Messiah will come. Capital S. The faithful one or the Messiah will come. The anointed one. And by the way, when he comes, he's going to crush the head of the serpent, the seed of the serpent. That's the first, in fact, first prophecy. You know what? Thank you for saying that. People say, I don't want to talk about Bible prophecy. Or you have to. Because the first, they're inseparable. Frank, listen. You already know this. What am I getting excited about? I don't know. It's exciting for everyone. Genesis 3.15 is the first so technological verse in the Bible. And it's also the first eschatological verse in the Bible. Prophecy and salvation are inseparable. Because the spirit of Revelation 19.10 says, Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. Think of that. Jesus Christ is salvation. It's the same. The same author. That said, God will keep his promises to Israel. But remember, he says a remnant will believe, when that time comes, there'll be a remnant. Now, apparently it's a remnant's kind of large, because at least we know there's 144,000 Jewish evangelists coming in the book of Revelation, 12,000 from each tribe during the tribulation period. I don't know. 144,000 is a lot of people. But I guess in the grand scheme of things, they're going to preach Gentiles. John said, I saw so many Gentiles I got saved from their ministry. You couldn't number them all. Remarkable. But that said, yeah, if God doesn't keep his promise to Israel and to Abraham and to Abraham's descendants, I ain't got nothing. And you cannot say there's no future for Israel because Romans 11. 9.10, 11. 9.10, but especially 11. Because 11, when he says, all Israel will be saved, and then it says right after that, Jack, it says, on account of the gospel, they're enemies. That's right. But on account of election, the election of the nation of Israel, not salvation. They're friends on account of the patriarchs. Yeah. This Israel that he's talking about the time, they're not saved. Yeah, that's exactly right. They can't be the church. Exactly can't be the church. So they were dispersed for 2,000 years to the four corners of the earth. Then God says in Ezekiel Isaiah, Joel, Amos, he says, in the later days, I will bring them back into their own land. Ezekiel says, I'm going to bring them back in unbelief. Think of that, Aliyah. They call it Aliyah. Did you make Aliyah? I'm going to go make Aliyah. What is that? I was born in Brazil. I'm Jewish. But I have this compelling drive to watch this. To not only go to Israel and live. But since October 7, 2023, more Jews immigrated back, I say back. They didn't start there. They were born in America. After 2023, October, they made Aliyah and moved to Israel. Huge numbers. Huge numbers. What's going on? Does the Bible talk about that? Yes, in great detail. Isaiah chapter 43, for example. But that said, where in any historical rodents is there somebody who calls himself God, who says, these are my people. They're a real pain in the rear. They're going to disobey me radically. When they do, they're going to pay for it. And they're going to be dispersed. But because I keep my word with Abraham, even though he was sleeping, I made a covenant with myself. That's right. I'm going to bring them back into their land. They're going to come back kicking and screaming spiritually. They might run back for the money. They might run back to be safe. But they're going to come back. The veil's over their eyes. Romans 9, 10, 11. I'm going to lift that veil at some time. That's sovereign to God. And yeah, a remnant will be saved. The remarkable thing is, Amos tells us that once he has brought them back into their land, they shall never again, I'm quoting Everbatom, they shall never again be uprooted. We know the tribulation period is going to be Jesus. So you don't think they could be booted out again and come back? No, they won't be booted out. You don't think so? They won't be booted out. They will be taken. I'll put it this way. Their worst days are ahead. Okay. If I understand the seven years, and the rise of the antichrist, Jesus said it this way, concerning those days, if I do not return, there'll be no flesh left on the earth. Right. Remember that? Jesus. That's right. That's right. Jesus is saying that to those who he says in Matthew 24, when you see the abomination I've spoken of by Daniel, the prophet standing where it ought not to, come down from your house, from your rooftop in flee. You and I do not live in our rooftop. You've been there. They have flat roofs. If you're in the field, don't go back to get your jacket run. If you're pregnant on that day, on that time, and nursing, basically it's going to be tough. Oh, and he says, he deliberately mentions the Sabbath, pray that your escape is not on the Sabbath, or that is in winter. I can't tell you how many times I've been to Israel in the winter when it's snowed in Jerusalem. That said, it's Jewish in context. Think of it. Think about it. And he says, flee. Now that said, it's going to look very, very obviously very, very terrible. It's going to be very, very terrible. Think about the times of the Holocaust. It's going to be worse. Jesus said, if you didn't come back, there would be no flesh left. So I do believe this, that once they're back in their land, they will never again be uprooted. They may be hanging by the skin of their teeth at some point. But May 14, 1948, which was yesterday. As we're recording it right now, yeah. Yeah. Listen, listen everybody. Israel celebrated. 78. It's 78th birthday for the second time. Yeah. Think of it. They were once a nation, God said, and then they're going to cease to be a nation, and then they're going to be a nation. Listen to this. Isaiah 66, beginning at verse 8, God says, Will Zion be made to give birth in one day? Can a nation come forth in a day? And yet Israel will come forth. Isaiah 66. The no nation was born a second time in one day, but Israel. Certainly not speaking the same language after 1900 years. That's never happened. Same language, same culture, same, same remarkable. But look, I'll be the first to say, and I'm happily labeled to be a friend of Israel. I get yelled at for that. That's fine. Hey, what's the alternative? Look, step away from the Bible for just a second. Just for just a second. Totally. What's the alternative? I ask people all the time, because I get questions all the time on Israel, Hamas. The first question I ask back is, have you read the Hamas Charter? Oh, my 1928. No, no. Well, the Muslim brother, I'm talking about Hamas Charter, like 1988. Okay, sorry. Okay. One person out of dozens said, yes. I said, you shouldn't have an opinion on this conflict unless you read Hamas Charter. Good for you. Do you remember what Hamas Charter says? Hamas Charter says that they want to wipe out the Jews. Hamas Charter says, all this talk about land deals and conferences. That ain't it. It's a waste of time. That's right. It will not be solved except by G-Hod. This is in the... Look it up. It's on the internet, okay? It's going to be solved by G-Hod. Total eradication of the Jewish line. So before you start blaming or accusing a group of genocide, Israel, maybe ought to look at the group Hamas that advertises, that's exactly what they wanted. Hamas, Hezbollah, technically the Muslim brotherhood. The Houthis. The Houthis. Yes. If... What's the guy called today? Nobody knows he's alive. Most people think he's dead. Who's the G-Hod? The Twelfth Imam. The Cardboard. What? The Cardboard. Who's the guy on a run right now? All of the IRGC. Oh, okay. IRGC. And the Khomeini Sun. Khomeini Sun. They can't stop until there's no more Jew. That's why if they get a nuke, they're probably going to use it. Because they think they're going to bring in the end times by getting rid of Israel. Okay. Frank, you're on a topic right now that I wish you and I could tie Trump in the entire cabinet down like chain him up and say to them, can you give us an hour and then we'll gladly leave. Will you listen to us? You can make any deal you want. It's only going to be short-lived. It's not going to last. Well, not only that, they can lie to the infidel. That's what I was going to say. Yeah, yeah. Do you know that they get to lie. They're commanded to lie to you guys to get things moving. And do you know that they believe in waiting things out where don't declare Trump victory too soon because here's the way they think what you don't know. As long as one of them are standing, one, they believe they're winning. That's how they interpret victory. If one of their team members is still standing after the U.S. and the Israelis decimate them, but there's one standing, victory. I'm not making it up. That's how they do things. And there has to be the, in fact, for the Quran to be true, the crescent has got to close. What I mean, what I say by that is look on every mosque. Now, I may be wrong about this. It's been the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is the Grey Dome. And the Dome of the Rock Mosque. I think one of those bear witness of the ultimate goal. Most countries, if you go around and look at a mosque, most of them have a crescent at about 45 degrees angle. I don't know why, not always, but it's not closed. It's a crescent, okay? In Islam, the crescent cannot, the moon cannot become full. The crescent cannot close until Israel is no more. And there's no more Jews. That's why in Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa or and or the Dome of the Rock Mosque has a closed crescent, a full moon, which is a whole, we need Bill Federer right now to talk about the moon god of Babylon. That's who Allah is, but that's another day. That said, I love what you said a moment ago. The world thinks, oh, let's have a peace deal. They spell peace differently. And I don't really need peace. I don't know how this is going to turn out. Because I'm not confident. The only thing that could bring them back a constitutional monarchy is if the military turns on the mollus. And that might happen when they stop getting paid. Because the people don't have weapons, Jack. Did you see the news? You've been in an airplane all day. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. That's the breaking news today. What? The IRGC have not been paid. Okay. I didn't see it. I'm just saying. And the IRGC is being fed right now, potatoes. They're out of food. You're right. Maybe, listen. I don't know because, listen, Frank. I hope, you know, this is sad to say. In the book of Ezekiel, it talks about an attempt by a five nation conglomerate that is going to seek to destroy Israel in the last days. And Persia is one of them. And the alliance of those nations, by the way, has never happened before. Never happened before in history, not even close. It's a future event. That means this piece deal with Trump. It's not going to last. In fact, what if it fails? Is it possible it could last for a period? Yes. Okay. I believe that. Yeah. We don't know when the end's coming, right? Yeah, we could. I personally believe, actually, I personally believe that it's going to be a short-lived piece, gig. And then something's going to happen. Change of leadership, change of who knows what. But we do know this. Daniel, chapter nine, verses 24 to 27, tells us that the Prince that shall come, a reference to the Antichrist, that he will secure a covenant of peace with Israel, with Daniel. It says Israel. I mean, it doesn't say Israel. It says, Daniel, your holy city and your holy people. Well, Daniel was a Jew. But he'll make a seven-year deal. But the Bible tells us three and a half years into the deal. He'll break that deal by what Antichrist's epiphanies did. Yes. Right. He offered a swine. Six, seven. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we're going to get back to Charlie. We want to talk about Charlie. Well, that was fun. Charlie was, as I say, the guy had been waiting for for 30 years. And you know what Charlie also would say about Courage Jack? He loved the virtue of Courage because Courage doesn't take any skill. You just got to make it. Please say that again. Courage doesn't take any skill. You don't have to be gifted. You don't have to have a great amount of intelligence. All you got to do is make a decision. That's what Courage is. And as you know, Churchill and Aristotle before him said things like Courage is the first of all virtues because without it you won't do anything else. Now, we're on our way to UVU that morning in the car. Charlie gets footage on his phone of the crowd. He shows it to me. I'm looking at it. It's like an amphitheater. I literally know you're going. I literally said to him. I said Jack. You told me this. I don't like it. I said to him, Charlie. I don't like this place. There's too many buildings. And he just shrugged it off because he's brave. He's not going to call off the event. His security team was there. They had coverage from the Utah University Police and some of the Utah State Police that they had the roofs. After this happened, I saw from Dan Flood the text that said we got the roofs. And I've since had a conversation and I can't reveal it yet because... Understand. That's right. I have to give this guy an opportunity to say something else. But I talked to the head of the University Police when I was there at the end of March because I went back to UVU to speak. And he was there and he came up to me and we spoke. But I won't say what he said until I have a chance to further vet it out. But he was denying to a certain extent that he had responsibility for certain areas. And it just seemed to me that since Butler P.A. I mean, I'm just a guy. Yeah, I was in the Navy, but I'm just a guy. And I go, you're better. You got to have somebody up there, right? No. I'm sure he feels badly. Of course. But we'll reach out to him and talk to him more. And those are the human dramas that we have to cope with in the scope of God's sovereign hand. Yeah. Well, there's always a ripple effect, Jack, and everything that happens. There's always a ripple effect. At the memorial service, there were 75,000 people in the building. There were 30 or 40,000 people in the building next to us. There were 110 million people watching online. And last I heard as of November several months ago, 1.2 billion people saw some of that memorial service. 1.2 billion people. It was the largest evangelistic event in history. I still get emails from people saying I became a Christian because of Charlie Kirk. I still get them. It's eight months later. I know Erica gets them. It's a tsunami, not just a ripple. There's been so much good that's come from it. Now, there's also been a lot of evil that's come out of it. I need to say this because there are... God, evil out. Yes. It was there. They came right out of the woodwork. It was there. It's the pus. It's the infectious. Yes. Yes. Loaded. Look, as you well know, but this is for the viewers and listeners, Jack, that Jesus and the apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, an accuser, and slander who wants to steal, kill, and destroy. All those things. We had a murder on 910. What have we had since then? Lies, accusations, and slander seeking to steal, kill, and destroy. Yeah. And people don't believe in the demonic, Jack. How could it be more obvious? Yeah, exactly. They're attacking a widow. Right, and they don't care. But widow. Not only attacking a widow in her grief, an assassination, martyrdom. I say that because so many of them claim to be Christians. That's impossible. Yeah. They're... Jack, don't judge. No, no, no. I am supposed to judge in the way of fruit inspectors. That's right. I know this. The Holy Spirit who dwells within a Christian would never allow those kinds of words or actions, you know. He will not allow his kids to be like that. Jack, let's just go back to the Old Testament for a second. Exodus 22, 22, says, anybody that abuses a widow or the fatherless, God says, I will hunt you down with a sword and kill you. That's what it says, Jack. If they pray to me, I'm going to hunt the guy down and kill him with the sword. I can't just hear somebody say, that's why I don't read the old books. But then you just reminded me in Revelation 19 and 20 years. This is coming with a sword. That's right. It is mouth. That's right. And in Deuteronomy 19, it says this, if you accuse someone of a crime, falsely, and then you're found out, you get the penalty of the crime. I love it. So if you accuse someone of murder falsely and you're found out, you get executed. This would shut the internet down, Jack. If we look on America, you would just shut it down. And I just, you know, and you got to have two witnesses. I mean, yes, that's right. Look at the record show. Hey, man, that needs, boy, that would shut, you're right. People would straighten up real quick. That's right. People would keep their trash inside of them where it should stay. But as the proverb says, gossip goes down like choice morsels, Jack. They love, they love the intimacy, the inside. We've got inside knowledge that I don't know all where a club. We're in a cult now. Yeah. In fact, the things that happened after you two, the things that happened after Charlie's assassination, I found out so many things about me, about you. I found out things about my dad. Yeah. My family, my family, my brother, you know. What? Your brother, what? My brother. Butch. When we were thinking of pictures. Yeah. It turns out that right before Charlie was shot, my brother was talking to a microphone or speaker that was in a bush. Oh. And so he was talking to some sort of military operative that they were, you know, conspiring to take out Charlie. Because it couldn't have been a person who had been indoctrinated to cultural Marxism and transgenderism, who was in a set that Charlie was speaking the truth and that he wrote and eat this fascist on his bullet when he shot him, that's just too simple. There's got to be an integrated big conspiracy theory that this guy was just a patsy of apparently. Exactly right. Now, if that were true, Jack, if that were true, he's not really guilty, Tyler Robinson. Do you think his parents would be screaming right now? You got the wrong guy. He's innocent. They turned him in. Don't you. Exactly. Don't you think he would be screaming right now? I didn't do it. I mean, this is just. It's possible. Anything's possible, Jack. It's possible. Aliens may have done it, Jack. It's possible. I need evidence though. Yeah. You need evidence. No, I don't think aliens would do such a thing. I think it would take a lib tart like that to do such a thing. This is a person who's been indoctrinated. The folks who say they're fighting for inclusion, tolerance, and diversity, Jack. 100%. Those are the people who kill people. They do. Okay. They won't include you. Won't tolerate you for holding diverse views. They want to sit down and have a peace fest. But it's spelled not with peace. We can't tolerate the fact that you have a different view. And so we're going to kill you. This is what happens, Jack, when you don't have a way to defend your worldview logically, you emote. That's what happens. You emote. You emote that. And people get frustrated and tragically. Now look, Tyler Robinson's made the image of God. He deserves a fair trial. He deserves presumption of innocence. But given the evidence that we have seen, if it's true, it sure appears he's guilty. I hope he repents. And then he's executed. Because that's what he deserves. Absolutely. You said something key. He executed. The people who are against capital punishment are also the ones who are letting people out of prison. Yes. Who go right back to killing people. But excuse me, we're in California, I can say that. They are for capital punishment on the innocent, the unborn. They will murder a baby in the womb. And it's a virtue. It's a sacrament. It's a sacrament. This is my body. Yeah. Yeah. They're mimicking the words of our Lord. The communion. This is my body. Yeah. Which is not, which is hilarious. Right. Our friend Dennis Prager did one of the greatest videos years ago on why a baby is not your body. And he walks through a complete separate DNA. Sure. A complete separate identity. A different gender. Completely different gender. How's inside of another human? Yeah. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. But attack. People don't understand the pro-life position. We're talking about pro-life for the innocent. It's different in capital punishment because you're punishing a guilty person. If there's no violation. There's no violation. No, I know. And Jesus affirms capital punishment. Absolutely. Pilate says, don't you know I have the authority to kill you? Jesus doesn't say no. Jesus says, yes, you do. But you get the authority from above. Exactly. For God-established government. Exactly that. And that's why God, that's why the ruler bears the sword. It's a reference to capital punishment. So if nobody's responding to this podcast yet, this again. Jesus said in Luke chapter 22, remember when I first sent you guys out, I told you don't take anything on the missionary venture that I was, okay, well now that I'm leaving, I'm sending you guys out. But this time you need to take your jacket with you this time. And you need to take what you, you need to take, forget what he said. I'm sure you don't. He said, you need to sell, you know, sell, sell some bananas and get, he said get two swords. That should be enough. All right. Why too? If you drop one, you're going to need the other one. People don't, most Christians don't even know that. Jesus said, you need to own a gun. I mean, you need self defense, self defense. By the way, our founding fathers used that law of natural law to establish the second amendment. Yes. The second amendment was not invented by the NRA. Of course not. The second amendment, our founding fathers said, okay, we learned something here. We know this. We can write up any constitution you want. But we got to do this. One and two are of natural law, which we could, we could make laws against it. Nobody will obey it. Because a man will speak his mind and a man will defend himself. So one will be, you can talk all you want, two will be, you can defend yourself. And imagine if Iran had a second amendment. Wow. Wow, you know what? The Iranian, the Persian, I like to call them Persian. The Persian people, they don't have that. They can't defend themselves against a despotic government. But they're wanting, they're, how many have been killed? What did? Well, 35 or 40,000. 30 to 40 plus thousand dead because they spoke their minds. Wow, think about it. This proves Jefferson and Adams and proves what they said. People will speak their minds, even if it costs them their lives. Because the first amendment recognizes God's natural law that man will speak. Wow. Well, hopefully, we'll speak. Those people were speaking for their freedom. We have freedom and we won't speak up to defend it. Well, that's why we're losing it to Islamic candidates sweeping across the US at this time. Did you ever think that under Trump's administration and all the tremendous mega and all the WAP flag waving in a post 9-11, 2001 world, again, getting back to how the Muslim mind thinks, that we would see them getting victories in Russia. Yes, because 40 million Christians don't vote. That's why. Thank you for saying that. 40 million don't vote. They gripe, they moan, they complain, but they don't get off their spectator. I guess they think that only atheists are qualified to run the country. Where do they get that from? By that, they're endorsing evil. Silence is approval. They're different than Germans during the time of Hitler. Apathetic Christians are what's wrong with Christianity today. Totally. Jack, I say this to audiences all the time. Do you think that Christians back in the 1800s should have gotten politically involved to eradicate slavery and free the slaves? Everyone would go, yes, of course. Welcome to politics, ladies and gentlemen. It's right. So why is it any different now? That's right. Why is it any different now? In fact, I'm going through, I'm not saying, this is, because this is an election year. Yes. So I'm getting all kinds of questions or all kinds of challenges. And so I answered what you just, exactly how you just answered. And of course, Jesus saying, whose coin is this? It's a political statement Jesus made, by the way. You can look at all these things. I'm really hard pressed. I'm open. I'm open to being wrong on this. But so far, everything is trending from Genesis to Revelation. The inseparable reality between faith and politics. God established government. Throughout the entire TV Scripture. It's political from Genesis to maps, Jack. Genesis to all the way. It's political. It is. All these prophets. But a shallow Christian, Frank, cannot handle that. They just like, yeah. Why? Because they've not been equipped by pastors to train them as disciples to go out on Sunday afternoon and show up in Monday morning at work or wherever they're at, and to be able to say, hey, Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again from the dead, fulfilling Bible prophecy. And God also said that when the righteous are empowered, the people rejoice, but when the wicked are in authority, the people grow. And it says, love your neighbor. How do you love your neighbor if you're allowing them to be hurt by bad laws? By bad laws? When you have the opportunity to protect them from bad laws. That's right. Why are you not taking that opportunity? Because they are so spiritual, Frank, they would never dirty their hands and get it involved in that dark and nasty world. Yet Paul wanted to go see Caesar. Exactly. He used his power. Yes. Citizenship. He leveraged it to get a court with Caesar. And he told Felix so many unnerving things to Felix. He went after Felix on a moral level. Yes, he did. He was a governor there. Yeah. That Felix said, go away. I don't want to talk to you. Later. Yeah, later. Tomorrow. And he kept bringing him Paul back, because he wanted Paul to give him a bribe, and he wouldn't do it. Yes. Yeah. So Paul was trying to influence the top leaders of the Roman Empire. To prove your point, what does the book of Acts say? Later on. Acts. A couple of epistles which escaped me. Maybe you'll know. Where Grete. I might be Romans. Oh, the end of Romans. Grete Rufus. I should know this. Grete those guys who are of Caesar's household. That's right. Caesar's household. Oh my gosh. Caesar's at the table. I roll the world. And there's some kid down at the end going. It's not all of them. Oh, it's amazing. Hey, wait. I hope we got a few more minutes. I got to say this about that day 910, because it's important for everybody watching, who loved Charlie and TP USA. We got to the hospital somewhere around 1230. He was shot, right? Like maybe 1220. It took us like 10 minutes to get there. Maybe 15. We had no. This is an SUV. We had no lights. We were just screaming. Saw that. Yeah. We get there. Mikey had already sent a plane to get Erica. Right. And she got there. I want to say about three o'clock. Talk to the doctor. Went up and had private time with Charlie's body, you know. It's about 530. I'm about the only one in emergency room area. Just standing there. I'm in scrubs because your clothes were yet. I didn't want her to see any of that. No way. So they come down from being with Charlie. Erica sees me. I see her. She's a mess as you can imagine. Of course. She's crying. I'm crying. It comes up to me. We hug and she says this. He loved you. He was doing what he wanted to do. He said, please don't let his legacy die. So I'm trying to do whatever I can do to make sure his legacy continues. And we need people out there to do the same. Nobody's going to replace Charlie is one of a kind. Well said, we need people to do the same. So we are Charlie Kirk. Remember, we are Charlie Kirk. Paul said it this way, emulate me as I emulate Christ. We're not saying Charlie was perfect. We're not saying that. But he had such good qualities. The good qualities where he was following Jesus. Let's emulate those. Charlie was not perfect. But I must say this. I say that based on the relative scripture. I honestly, I'm trying to remember if I heard him say something wrong. I'm trying to remember if he said something rude to somebody. I cannot remember if Charlie was short or in a bad mood. I don't remember Charlie ever hurting someone's feelings. Of course, he was not perfect. But I've never seen him fluff up. And I've never seen any of that out of Erika either. And she has taken the most heat and has to live with the worst event imaginable. And she forgives Tyler Robinson at the memorial service only nine days later. She's a superhero. Only in Christ can that happen. You know, God will systematically in this life or the life to come judge accordingly. He's the perfect judge. People need to realize that no one's getting away with anything. Instead of resting everything on that reality. There are people who just won't stop talking about all the dynamics and all the conspiracies and all of this. And I know something nobody else knows and all this. They just keep going and little do they know they're actually. They are actually ripening themselves for the day of judgment. Scripture talks about this. They are gainsayers. They're heady. The Bible says they're headstrong, slanderous, unloving, unthankful, unholy. Second Timothy 3. Yes. And best for us in life to leave it in the hands of God. Best for us to rest where Frank who was with Charlie in many ways times. But there at his last breath. You have to leave things with God. Instead of conjuring up ideas and crazy things that should be thoughts that are put under the captivity of Christ. Things that the professing world I don't think I've heard from. But those who say their Christians have spewed the most demonic things. The world has shown more respect. What are these accusations in slander? Lies, accusations in slander against a widow. Because there's in her husband's organization, his legacy. I do believe, I don't know, you do as well. But I do believe that those manifestations that went so very public or of demonic origin. But people have to lend themselves to be open to being used by such dark powers. So look, I want to thank you for loving Charlie. You did too, Jack. Charlie was so easy to love. I mean, come on, it's not like I had to work at it. But supporting him and Erica now into the future, we have to do what we can do. Not that any organization is perfect or any person, that's not the point. And blessing often means correction. That's right. We said earlier. People don't understand Erica was established long before she met Charlie. Miss Arizona, CEO of two companies. But very sharp. And she reminds me a lot of my wife. I mean, she is someone that doesn't get super emotional. And she knows the facts and she focuses. Are you talking about my wife? All of our wives. Notice your wife and my wife and Erica. Very similar. Not because God gave us that because they're married to crazy people. That's right. Oh, man. So, no, it's true, Ellie, Jack. I mean, Erica is just focused. I mean, she's as tragic and as how much pain she's in. She somehow gets up every morning and presses on. She's not a mess. Amazing. Well, I'm not going to shake your hand because that's very formal. I love you, we're friends. We've been friends for a long time, brother. Be friends to the end. Your brother in arms. And a brother in truth. And thank you for being the tip of the spear among pastors. Because we need more pastors to wake up, Jack. We hope it happens. 24-7, 365, 360 degrees. What area of life does Jesus not control? Every area. You should be following Jesus everywhere. Amen. Amen. This Jack Kibs podcast as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibs.com to learn more and stay connected.