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April 25, 2022

Dennis Prager - Ask a Jew, Ask a Gentile

In this riveting episode, Jack Hibbs and Dennis Prager answer questions with fascinating insight into both the differences and the similarities between Christianity and Judaism. Touching on topics such as the identity of the Messiah, the purpose of religion, the interconnectedness between Jew and Christian, the balance of faith and works, and much more, Jack and Dennis find common ground in many areas while agreeing to disagree on others. Approaching one another’s beliefs with genuine respect and profound love, both respondents bring thought-provoking ideas to the listener. You will come away from this episode challenged, inspired, and enriched with a greater appreciation for both the Jewish and Christian perspectives on life and God.


In this riveting episode, Jack Hibbs and Dennis Prager answer questions with fascinating insight into both the differences and the similarities between Christianity and Judaism. Touching on topics such as the identity of the Messiah, the purpose of religion, the interconnectedness between Jew and Christian, the balance of faith and works, and much more, Jack and Dennis find common ground in many areas while agreeing to disagree on others. Approaching one another’s beliefs with genuine respect and profound love, both respondents bring thought-provoking ideas to the listener. You will come away from this episode challenged, inspired, and enriched with a greater appreciation for both the Jewish and Christian perspectives on life and God.

Learn more and get all the notes on this podcast by visiting http://jackhibbs.com/podcast - sign up for our mailing list and get the latest podcast information and updates!

 

 

Transcript

Speaker 1:
Make America debate again in this corner, a Jew Dennis Preger and in this corner, yours, truly the Gentile Jack Hibbs on this episode, my good friend and I Dennis Preger, we sit down for a lot of fun and information as we discuss many different topics and issues, some of which are pulled right outta days, headlines, this special Jewish Christian dialogue. If you would is moderated by duly Rutherford. And I want you to hear what we both had to say. Don't forget. You can always subscribe to Jack Gibbs podcast by hitting subscribe, wherever you listen to your podcast. Then also as a reminder, stay connected with me to find fresh new programs, messages, live events all by going to Jack gibbs.com. Adjust your pods, turn up the volume, get ready. Let's roll 

Speaker 2:
Real life and 

Speaker 3:
Real life presents the Jack Gibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to Jack hibbs.com/podcast. Today. If this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more filled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings to us. That's like saying amen, or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now, open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. 

Speaker 4:
My question for both of you, uh, because I, you know, I, I know, I know both of you, but, but, uh, when you, when you get up in the morning today, tomorrow, the day after eat breakfast and you walk out your front door of your house, do you feel as though there's any divine purpose for your life? And if so, what is that call? What is the call of God upon your life right now, Jack? You wanna go first? 

Speaker 1:
Absolutely. Yes. 100%. I mean this with all of my heart, for those of you who have heard me say this before, I literally ask God to fill me with this holy spirit, before my feet get outta my bed. I get my feet right over the edge of my bed. And I say, Lord, fill me with your spirit today that I'd walk and your power and Lord that I might just cause others to just get a little, a little closer to Jesus, a little closer to knowing the love of God. So use me today, interrupt my schedule today, any way you wish. And so here I come and I put my feet on the ground. And from that moment further, I do not look back. I just go forward every day. That is, that may sound religiously active to you. For me, it's so meaningful and purposeful because the book of Isaiah tells us that our God knows our God knows he's the God that has written the things of the future down in ancient times. And I'm a big fan of him knowing the future. He knows the now and he's the eternal one. And he told Moses in the burning Bush, I, you go tell the children of Israel. I am that I am sent you the eternal one. That's self-contained. I trust him every day. If, if he can lead them through the wilderness. And if he, he can keep Jupiter moving and the moon doing what it does, then he's got my life and he's never let me down once. Not once ever. 

Speaker 5:
Well, you asked me the $64,000 question of my life. So I recognize more and more over the course of my life that I'm not normal. 

Speaker 6:
Thank 

Speaker 5:
God for that. Thank you. He said, he said, we thank God for that. I, I, I'm glad you feel that way. So here's an example. When I was a junior in high school, I kept a diary. I still have the diary and I wrote, I know exactly what I do, what I want to do with my life. I want to influence people to the good, to write that as a junior in high school is not normal. 

Speaker 5:
And I have not deviated a day from that. My life, my older son, when he was about 21 said to me, something that made me aware of how abnormal it was. And it was important that he told me, this said, dad, you have no idea how lucky you are that you knew so early, what you wanted to do with your life. Most people don't. And he was right. And he was speaking for himself for that matter. He's blossomed into a spectacular young man, but most people don't know at, at 21, many don't know at 61. 

Speaker 5:
And I knew at, at 16 and I have been deviated, I have always felt, and I, I, I, I can say this to a religious audience, cuz you'll you'll know what I mean. I have always seen myself as a vehicle. I'm not an end. I'm a vehicle. And it has given me such stack peace. So if God wants to use me, it'll continue. And if he doesn't want to use me, it won't continue. So I've never asked how successful am I? I just know what I have to do. I want to make one more point though, about me and God. We have a respectful relationship, more than a loving one, which to many of you is, is not her, but perhaps strange. Uh, I have only asked God once in my life for something, by the way, I got it. So it was sort of like, I'll show you Dennis, you arrogant skeptic. 

Speaker 5:
But literally one time in my life, I, my life is overwhelmingly. What does God want from me rather than what do I want from God? I think it's a beautiful way to live a life for many, many reasons, which I won't get into, but that is how I lead my life. And I think I'm clear about what he wants me to do. So yes, I walk out of my house every day with a sense of mission. A guy asked me this week, uh, uh, who has asked me this? Was it somebody at the station or someone on the radio. Then if you're broadcasting 40 years, do you still love it? And I'm thinking, well, first of all, why wouldn't I, how many people get to talk to millions of people about what they think every day? I mean, you, you gotta be joking. What I not wasn't I, when would I stop loving it in year 31? I, I don't understand. But aside from that, that's not the issue. I have a mission. So the isn't is the question. Jonah ran away from his mission. I embraced it. This is my mission. And it gives me spectacular energy. And, and, and when I'm I'm with 1800 people, like you, all it does is reinforce. I maybe doing something right. And that's a wonderful thing, 

Speaker 1:
Dennis. I would. That's beautiful. I would add with your bat in average at prayer. 

Speaker 5:
Oh yes. 

Speaker 1:
That you should ask often. 

Speaker 5:
You're right. I'm afraid. I'll get disappointed. I, I fully acknowledge This is true. It's child. It should be what I just said, but I I'm being totally open. I, I, I don't wanna push my luck. I'm one for one and retiring 

Speaker 1:
It's Hey, I have something for you. It's but it's powerful. And it packs a punch. It's a booklet that we've put out called countdown, all eyes on God's ultimate end game. But what does that mean in light of what's going on in the world around us? I have never seen the pieces come in together so well, and so aligned according to Bible prophecy, like we see right now in these end times, are we living in the last days? What should we be looking for? I asked myself these questions and looking only to the word of God, I found the answers, true answers. According to the scriptures countdown, all lies on God's ultimate end game is a pocketbook I wrote, and I want you to have it. And this is available for a gift of any amount. Simply go to jacks.com. All the information is right there on how you can obtain a copy for yourself, hot off the press, as it were@ibbs.com. You can order it now. 

Speaker 4:
So here's my question. The two of you, since we have people here that are Jewish and, and, and, and Christian, Dennis, if someone comes up and said, just say, Hey, what is your faith? How do you answer that question? Just what is your faith? And then the same thing to you, Jack 

Speaker 5:
Jewish. 

Speaker 4:
You just, that's all you say. 

Speaker 5:
Well, that's all they ask. 

Speaker 4:
Okay. Do they ever ask you what kind of a Jew? 

Speaker 5:
Oh, no, that's fine. If they ask a second question, I have more to say 

Speaker 7:
That's great. Make me, 

Speaker 5:
Was that like a Jewish answer? Was that, uh, A Jewish answer? Would've been, what do you mean? Jew's answer with questions, but I, 

Speaker 4:
I do have other questions. 

Speaker 5:
What's my faith. Actually, 

Speaker 4:
If you, the faith that you practice, the faith that you practice, 

Speaker 5:
I, I, I, I am practicing Jew. Uh, I am non-denominational. I believe that Torah is from God. The first five books of the Bible. I, uh, uh, I am, uh, my, if you want to go further, uh, and this is relevant to me, not necessarily to anybody else, my vehicle to God is reason. It's part of the reason that I have been able to bring many people to Christianity and many people to Judaism. When I was in, uh, my wife was with me in, uh, the Czech Republic. Last year, when I spoke in Hungary and Czech Republic, I was at a dinner with about 20 young people. And it was a very moving guy, came over to me, living in Prague. And thanks, thanks to Prager you his reach. And he said, I just want you to know Ben Shapiro brought me to conservatism and you brought me to God. And he's a, he's a, a faithful Christian. And I looked at him and they were all listening. And I said, I can't tell you, uh, how happy and proud I am. All I asked from you is tell everybody it was two Jews who did that. 

Speaker 1:
It's true. The first time I met Dennis, I said, you're my favorite Jew. And he goes, that's not true. I'm your second favorite Jew, Right? That's true. So I assume you're gonna ask me this same question. My question, I believe is, uh, the right question. The, the right answer. The answer I'm gonna give you is, listen. I just sounded Jewish for a second. 

Speaker 1:
Um, I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, um, listen, this might shock some of you. I have no idea I would have no, if the new Testament's true, unless I've read the old Testament, you gotta understand that everything that, the, everything that Moses and the prophet said and wrote about is in the old Testament. Okay. But what Christians do in the west is they don't read the old Testament. They read the new. So my question to you is how do you know it's true? You'll never know it's true unless you read the Jewish scriptures because listen, when the first century church met and Paul told the Corinthians in Greece about the gospel, that Christ was to come and die. As I, as our sacrificial lamb and be resurrected. Paul said that to the Corinthians. And he said, I teach you this based upon the scriptures, what scriptures was he referring to old Testament? 

Speaker 1:
There was no new Testament then. So for me, I'm a Gentile. That's been grafted in to what is known as the Commonwealth of Israel. Isn't what this of say. The scriptures say that we who are Gentiles have come to faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's why personally, I'm, I would need the Sheriff's protection for this. If somebody were to come to me and say, I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in Israel or the, I don't believe in the Jews. I'd have to have the sheriff hold me back because I don't know what book you're reading. So I have the privilege deadly and I have the honor and the privilege to be grafted into the promises of the Hebrew scriptures. And, and so I'm a, I would say in this day and age, and I'm done, I'm a follower of Yahuah. I believe that Jesus is Messiah. I'm the follower of what I believe the Hebrew scriptures teach of the Messiah coming. You may disagree with that. That's fine. But I have to tell you, we're not far apart. Do you understand that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you need to go find out who 

Speaker 5:
That, well, we're not only, not far apart, but I mean, I say this with the joy of knowing you and many like you here and you, but I say this with sadness as well. That in fact, in terms of what matters to me, more than anything, values, I'm much closer to you than to most Jews. And I mean, and by the way of you are closer to me than to most non Jews, it just it's a, so I, I, I'm so aware of this and it's been so long in my life. Uh, I, I was blessed by God or fate. I never know which, because how can I say for sure, my first professional job? Well, no, my first radio job in my thirties was religion on the line. Some of you will remember the program. Um, um, yes, it was awesome. 

Speaker 5:
I was asked to be the moderator of a night show, which was the most became, it was. And then even further, the most popular radio show in LA on Sunday nights, if you have 3% of listeners, you are usually the number one show in your city that show had 40% of LA listeners on a Sunday night. People, you have no idea how many women came over to me, which I, I actually liked Dennis, just, I was a single guy and they came over and they go, you know, I just want you to know, I go to bed with you every Friday night, every Sunday night. It's like, like, I'll never forget. I had, I get a lot of these, these, these comments keep me young. I have to say woman calls my show about a year ago. And she goes, just want you to know I, uh, I have breakfast, uh, with, uh, Hugh Hewitt and I shower with you. I thought that was a beautiful will comment, frankly. Anyway, I was blessed to moderate this program. I came from a very hermetically sealed, Orthodox Jewish background in Brooklyn, New York. I not only never met Christians, I, I never met non-Orthodox Jews. Oh, it was really, it was hermetically sealed. My wife who was here has her this many times. So I always feel a little twinge of guilt, but you haven't. So it's five. I I'm into my nature was built an ache to know the other ache. I would actually, I do time knowing when the mailman came to interview him, 

Speaker 5:
I knew he wasn't Jewish. So I just wanted to talk to him. What are you like, sir? Do you have a family? I mean, whatever. It might be my father in the I'm old enough to remember radios, you know, where you actually dialed the station, you turned a dial for those of you young here. That's what we did. We turned dials. So to get to what he wanted, he would pass, you know, 10 stations. And whenever he passed an evangelical preacher, I go, dad, stop. And he goes, Dennis, that's a Christian preacher. I go, I know I want to hear it. And, and that, those are the moments when my father didn't, wasn't sure if I was adopted, he didn't know where I came from. So, but I remember I was so interested in Christians. And so here I am my first radio job, a priest minister, rabbi every week, different ones each week. 

Speaker 5:
And this is what happened. Number one, after this was 10 years, August 80 to August 92, exactly 10 years. And I remember by year four, I thought I'm, I, I could choke up. I'm falling in love with these Christians. That's how I felt with both the pastors and the priests. I just, I really adored them. They were such sweet people in, in almost every case. And then I came to another realization. The biggest differences every single week were not between the Jews and the Christians. It was between the liberals and the conservatives, a liberal rabbi agreed with everything. The liberal priest liberal minister had to say. And the conservative, I believe he agreed with everything. The conservative priest at the conservative minister had to say, yeah, they didn't agree on Jesus. And that was it. But every other issue in life, that was the dividing line. And it's been true my whole life. 

Speaker 8:
That's amazing. 

Speaker 4:
I'm gonna ask a question. Okay. So, so the, the, that was, was that great? Or was that great? Come on, come on. 

Speaker 5:
Wait, wait, wait, which are you clapping for? Great. Number one or 

Speaker 4:
Number both. Okay. This, this is good stuff. So, so here, here's the question it's written down here. I wrote it down. It's on in ink. This is not just, this is all God ordained here. The old Testament, which you both, both, both of you believe in the old Testament. There's 39 books in the old Testament and the old Testament paint. It's a prophetic picture of a coming Messiah. You both believe that the old Testament paints this picture of it's prophetic that someday out yonder, the Messiah is going to arrive. And of course, Christians believe Dennis believe, uh, uh, Jack believes that Jesus was the one who fulfilled all of those old Testament prophecies, those 39 books. And Dennis does, to my knowledge, does not believe that Jesus fits the prophetic word from the old Testament. That Jesus is, is not who that old Testament is, is painting as the Messiah. So my question to both of you, one is to Dennis different questions, same topic, Dennis, why do you, why do you not believe that Jesus is a fulfillment of those prophecies that were painted? And Jack, why do you believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of those old Testament prophecies? 

Speaker 5:
I have a feeling that would be asked today. 

Speaker 5:
So let me, let me, there are many answers. So I try to narrow it down to a few that hopefully you will app appreciate if of, if, whether you I'm obviously not agree with necessarily, but this will may come as a surprise to you. Dividing line between Judaism and Christianity. Theologically is not with regard to whether Jesus was the messiahs, whether Jesus was God, Jews would have, there would never have been a, a division of a new creation called Christianity. It simply would've been Jews for Jesus, uh, which is a, a group that exists in America. For example, if the only difference was who's the Messiah, everyone who believed that Jesus was the Messiah, would've stated Jew, the Jews would've accepted them as Jews, Jews, don't disqualify people on the basis of their belief on who's. The Messiah Jews have believed an me number of Jews. 

Speaker 5:
Barba was, uh, in, in the revolt against the, the, uh, the Romans. He, he was regarded, uh, as a Messiah, unknown to most Jews let alone non-Jews half the Jewish people believed in 1666 that a Turkish Jew named shop Heights V was the Messiah. None of them were, uh, regarded as not being Jews. Uh, there, there have been a handful of contemporary living Jews today who believed the, this, this great man that the Haba rabbi rabbi SNA was a Messiah. Most, most Haba Jews do not hold that, but do, they're not read out of the Jewish faith. The issue is the Trinity and, and, and Jesus is, uh, being regarded as, as God or son of God. That was the dividing line. So the messianic issue is, is not the fundamental dividing line between the faiths. Number two, the there's a different role that the Messiah plays in Christian theology than Jewish theology. 

Speaker 5:
The, the Jewish Messiah is not a savior. It it's just a, a figure that God will send. And, and it's really debated in, in, in Jewish life. What will happen will that usher in the afterlife? Will it usher in just a wonderful world here? We don't have as worked out as Christians do, uh, the issue of what the Messiah is or will be or who it will be. We pray for the messiahs, one of the 13 principles of the Jewish faith that the Messiah will come and bail this miserable world out of its misery. That is, that is a hope. Uh, but, uh, it's, it's just not a central a, uh, I, I went to Yeshiva, I'm interrupting my own sentence, which I hate doing it's it's like, I do that 

Speaker 9:
A lot 

Speaker 5:
To myself. I'm sorry. 

Speaker 9:
I do that to 

Speaker 5:
Me. Yeah, no, no, no, we all do it, but I, I really hate when I do it to myself. It's it's unprofessional. Uh, but anyway, uh, I went to Yeshiva, which is Orthodox Jewish school, very intense till I was 18 and, and continued after 18, even, uh, half the day is in Hebrew Jewish studies. And half the day is in English. Secular studies. You go from nine to five. I mean, it, it, it was rigorous. The, I learned a great deal and you will be stunned to know. I would say that in all, let's see 12 years, uh, the Messiah was probably not discussed for more than 10 minutes, this, and it is a wow, that is very appropriate for you to make cuz the, the mess issue plays a much greater role in, in Christian life than in Jewish life. Jewish life is, is devoted religious Jewish life to pretty much the question that I asked early, what does God want me to do? 

Speaker 5:
You, if you really love God, it says in Deuteronomy, you will, will observe his commandments. That's it? That that's that's it sounds prosaic even, but I, I have to tell you, I think, I think, I think Jesus was right actually that in, in some ways they, the Jews went too far with the law. So I'll just end with this, which is a challenge to both faiths. And the reason I feel so comfortable in making it is I love both groups. So I have no, no compunction about saying this in life. Our blessings are often our biggest challenges. If a woman is very beautiful, it's a blessing, but it can be a real burden as well or, or any, any, any gift that one may have. So the blessing of Christianity is faith. The blessing of Judaism is law, but it's ease to go too far with either of them. 

Speaker 5:
Jews did go too far on the law issue. Uh, I, I, I, that's why I'm not completely Orthodox. I'm observant, but not as observant as Orthodox Jews are. And, and I do believe that, look, there's a great rabbi. You wouldn't know of him, but his name was Mendel of Kutz in, in I think 18th century, he said sometimes Jewish law is ID worship. It's a very powerful line. This guy was an ultra Orthodox rabbi who said that. And I would say to Christians, sometimes faith can be ID worship. When the only thing that matter is faith and not behavior. When the only thing that matters is law and not how good you are. This is what the prophet said. I'm sick of your sacrifices. Be decent people. So, and, and, and what did James say? Yes. Without your, your faith is nothing without works. Those are the messages that are critical. In my opinion, to both groups, we have an immense amount to learn from each other. My God, if you only learned the Sabbath from us, you would have an infinitely richer Christian life. The Sabbath has died in most Christians lives. It's a tragedy, 

Speaker 5:
By the way, I have a question for you two, interestingly, and then please answer this. And, and because I will, I, I will not tell you what I, in my mind predict, because I've asked this of Christian clergy I did for 10 years on religion on the line, are Christians obligated to fifth? Uh, the fourth commandment to, to keep the Sabbath 

Speaker 1:
Ness. 

Speaker 5:
Yes. 

Speaker 1:
The book of Colossians says, yes, but it's fulfilled in Christ. It says that he is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, that our Sabbath is in him every day. Paul said, some men choose to Sabbath on this day, some on the other day, but he said, I esteem every day alike now in Christ for he is my Sabbath. Right? 

Speaker 5:
What's your, what's your response? 

Speaker 4:
Uh, same as his, 

Speaker 1:
But wait, I, I get to answer the, I get to answer the original, the original question. 

Speaker 4:
No, I wanna, I want, yes. 

Speaker 1:
Okay. The original question Moses said to the children of Israel, God will raise up to you a prophet in the future. Him, you shall listen to interesting statement. God gave Moses the law in Mount Sinai and he gave him many other instructions. Right? And we read it. What's interesting is nowhere in the scripture regarding the law, does God say I'm gonna save my PE by the law. In fact, he said, the day that you break my law, you're gonna need what you're gonna need a sacrifice. You're gonna need an innocent lamb. And where does that pattern come from? Even before they got to Mount Sinai, we've got the death angel, the, the rec rescue out of Egypt. What was, and I, I don't, I love we, you sit down something and talk about what I'm about to say, cuz it's, who knows if it's right or not. 

Speaker 1:
But when you read Exodus, the requirement for the death angel to pass over, was it that you were Jew, did Moses say you gotta be a Jew for the angel to pass over? What was the issue? Blood innocent blood, what kind of blood? Lamb's blood. So for me, the reason why I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Dennis is waiting for the Messiah to come. I believe he, he came and that he's coming again. Here's the reason why is because first of all, a little bit of correction on, on Dudley, what you had said, Jesus did not fulfill all of the old Testament prophecies. Not yet. He fulfilled 300. He's coming back to fulfill the others. It's very clear. So remember that, by the way, all of the 300 that he fulfilled, all of them had to do with the old Testament regarding God's sacrifice for sin. 

Speaker 1:
So for example, Zacharia nine, nine Hebrew prophet told Israel, watch out, keep your eyes open. The day the Messiah comes, be able to recognize him. He'll be humble. He'll be writing on the back of a donkey, a cult that no one has, no one has ever ridden upon. You know what we call that? We call it Palm Sunday. Isaiah said that Israel's Messiah would be born of a Virgin that Isaiah seven 14, the one that would be born of a Virgin, it says in Isaiah 96, that he would be called the almighty God. And that the governments of the world would rest upon his shoulders. Why does it say that? Because in the beginning, Elohim, I am plural. God. That's why we believe in a Trinity as Christians. So when the people of Israel shouted 2000 years ago on April 6 32 ad Jesus is riding on the back of a donkey and Jerusalem's going crazy. 

Speaker 1:
Hosanna Hosanna blessed it as he comes in the name of the Lord, the, the people thought that this is the Messiah that's gonna deliver us from everything they, the scriptures tell us that they feel to recognize that he came first to deliver us from our sins. That he's coming back someday, not as a suffering savior. I, we believe in Isaiah chapter 53, that the Messiah suffers before he comes back to rain. And then bottom line is this, that king David said in Psalm 22, a thousand years before Christ was born in Bethlehem, that they will look upon me whom they have pierced. And I've been, I will be encircled by Gentiles who, who will open up their mouths and wa their tongue at me as a curse. It's remarkable. Micah chapter five verse two says that the Messiah would be born. A town called Bethlehem for out of Bethlehem at Paha shall he come forth unto me? 

Speaker 1:
Who's goings forth, have been from of old, even eternal. And then here's my final one because I have 59 just like that. But this is my favorite Solomon said in Proverbs, who has ascended into heaven or descended, who has gathered the wind in his fists, who has bound up the water is in his garment who has established all the ends of the earth. What is his name? And what is his son's name? If you can tell me that's Proverbs 30 ladies and Proverbs 30. I told you earlier, I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Not because of the new Testament. It, the new Testament records, the fulfillment of the old Testament promises. That's how I know in whom I believe. And so for me, my faith is not in faith. That's kind of a stupid conclusion. If your faith is in faith, when you go down to lax and you get on a plane, trust me, you better not have faith and faith. You better have faith in the God of science who created aerodynamics. So that big piece of metal gets off the ground. Right? Think about it. You can say, I have faith. I have faith. I have faith. You're only as safe as the object in which you place your faith in. And for me, it's, Yahuah, it's Jesus as Messiah because of the prophesy scriptures. 

Speaker 5:
So I, I would like to add something and that is that I regard, and this I, I'm not speaking on behalf of all Jews. I'm just speaking on my own behalf, but I regard Christianity as a divine way of bringing the world to Sinai. So I see you all of you here. Well, nearly all of you and the two wonderful pet as between whom I'm sitting as divinely, ordained in your Christianity. I don't see you as a false religion. Uh, I would, if I did, I would respectfully say, I don't believe that there's truth to it, but I'm happy you have it. I don't, I believe that it is as a divine way of bringing the Gentile to Sinai and the world to Sinai, the greatest Jewish philosopher who ever lived by monies in the 11th century, uh, who was, uh, no fan of either Christians or Muslims. He was persecuted by, by yet. He wrote at the end of his great work on Jewish law. The other hazah means the strong hand. And he wrote that it's Christians overwhelmingly, who have brought the Torah to the world more than Jews have. And for that, I thank you. And how could I not believe that that is a divine calling since that's what I want. I want the world to know the Torah and you're making it possible. 

Speaker 10:
Yeah, 

Speaker 1:
You guys, I, I hope you caught the gravity of what Dennis just said. That's massive, truly massive statement to say. And again, I humbly on behalf of all the Gentiles in this room, Dennis, you may or may not know this, but the new Testament teaches in the book of Romans Paul, the Jew writes to a bunch of Italians and he reminds them that it's because of the Jews who have been the ones who have been the custodian of the scriptures that God gave them, that you Romans that the world can no salvation because of the Jewish care for the scriptures ring. Remember your Bible, your new, your new Testament says that I appreciate the compliment. He gave us a moment ago, but we've gotta be very specific. God appointed the Jews. And he has chosen the Jews and they have been the protectors of the scriptures. 

Speaker 1:
The Bible says, so, and, and I want, I wanna just say on behalf of whoever's listening, or I don't know if this is ever gonna be re broadcast, but it is. We need to remember something. We need to remember something. There's a reason why, look, I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings, but I don't go around whining about how much the Portuguese have been persecuted in life. I'm Portuguese. I don't go around people. Shouldn't go around whining about how much they've been persecuted because of this. I don't care what color you are. You shouldn't go around whining about it. If you wanna compare persecution to persecution, there's no one that comes close to the Satan attack that has been against the Jewish people. As soon as Satan figured out that the Messiah would come from Israel and it Satan hates the Jew. And if you are that realm of thinking, you need to get out of that realm of thinking the greatest friend and ally on this planet to the Jewish people should be the Christian. And if you're not, something's wrong with your theology, I love you, but something's wrong with your theology. So I'm gonna need a car away for me immediately after this is, 

Speaker 4:
You just had to get that off your chest. Didn't you just, that was beautiful. Dennis, do you, do you feel loved by Christian people? 

Speaker 5:
The ratio of love from Christians to me vis Avi Jews is a thousand to one. I, uh, It it's a painful truth. Uh, a lot of Jews can't stand me cuz I'm I'm, I'm the most well known conservative Jew. And uh, The, I don't know how, I don't know. It's an interesting question. I don't think about it much, cuz I've never been preoccupied, 

Speaker 4:
But you feel it. 

Speaker 5:
I'm sorry 

Speaker 4:
You feel it. 

Speaker 5:
Oh, I'm gonna come to the Christian part in a moment, but I I'm, I'm dealing with the Jewish part, The but uh, it's, it is important that you know, this, uh, the love that I receive from people like you is very touching to me, but I have never sought to be loved and you can't be a leader. If you seek to be loved, I would betray you if I did. That's awesome. So I, I need you to note, I need you to understand that. Also I have a motto that I developed early in life. I, I don't let compliments go to my head and I don't let insults go to my heart. Everybody should adopt that motto. So as a general rule, Christians love me more than Jews. And the reason is that most Jews don't share my, my social and political views and I'm, I'm very public and I'm out there not just out there but out there as a Jew. So, uh, I went from the, the, the second, most frequently booked lecture in Jewish life, in my thirties and forties to almost never booked Only El Wezel got more bookings than I did at the time. 

Speaker 5:
And that was because Jews drifted left and I drifted, right. I mean, I, the truth is I have the same values I did when I was a Democrat, but they left my values as I didn't leave theirs, in my opinion, As regards Christians, um, it, it is a sort of love affair and it touches my heart. Uh, and I'm very moved by it. It's not something I would've predicted in Yeshiva. Dennis, you will really be a, a big hero among America's Christians. I, I didn't see that in the cards. When I, when I was studying Talmud all day in Aramaic, uh, just life it's like Yogi bears, great line when there's a fork in the road, take it. So this was my fork in the road. So it's interesting. My dream is that that eventually more and more Jews will read by Torah commentary. There are 4,000 reviews on my Bible. Commentary, nearly all are from Christians. Many of whom that brought the, my, my commentaries brought to them to faith in God, which makes my day. I love that, But the Jews are a difficult people. God knew that by the way, I want to tell you something, I, I wanna say something on behalf of the Jews now that I've said all these other things, 

Speaker 5:
Uh, first of all, if, uh, excuse me, if Jews were not so stubborn and difficult, they never would've survived. I mean, I, I take that as a given 

Speaker 9:
And 

Speaker 5:
Number two Jews are annoying, but they don't murder anybody. And, and that's a very important little, uh, uh, extension. 

Speaker 9:
And we appreciate that. 

Speaker 5:
Yeah. Yes, that's right. Yeah. I'm playing that's right. So, you know, perspective is, is, is important here. Also one final thing. One of the reasons, one of the biggest reasons I believe that Torah is divine is cuz the Jews are depicted so negatively. There is no holy work on earth that depicts its group as negatively as the Hebrew Bible, uh, portrays Hebrews that people don't make up a crappy past. 

Speaker 5:
So it must be divine. And I, and I mean that, that is one of my biggest arguments for the authenticity O of the book and the, the heroes of the Torah, which the Torah ha is PR inter Paris first among equals for Jews, Jews believe in the, in the inspiration of the rest of the Bible. But the, the, the divine origins of the Torah, the five books of Moses, that's always been a given to religious Jews. And it is to me. And in those five books, there are more non-Jewish heroes than Jewish heroes. Very few people think about that, but, but there are, Noah was a non-Jewish hero. The daughter, a Faroh is a non-Jewish hero. She saves Moses, the daughter of Farrow, uh Jetro is a non-Jewish hero. The he's a Midnite priest. And without him, Moses couldn't even lead. I mean, the, these are the, the Shifra and poor, the, the Egyptian midwives who don't listen to Pharaoh, I am convinced they're Egyptian. 

Speaker 5:
Some people think they were Hebrews, but the it's overwhelmingly. I, I, I, I show in my commentary on Exodus, White's overwhelmingly likely that they were, uh, that they were Egyptian. And, uh, and look at the Jews. I mean, how you, Moses is a hero. Of course, uh, Aaron, his brother, Aaron is a very problematic soul. He helps them. He helps the Jews build the golden calf. What kind of leader is that? And, and, and loses his two sons. NA Avihu I guess NAAB and AHU in English. And, and, uh, it's just, it's just endless. Joseph is a hero. That's true, but the brothers are not heroes, right? Although Judah comes out very nice by the end. I have to say he does. It's a very, very powerful story. Judah, Judah is one of the great metamorphosis stories in the Bible. And I, I love is he, you know, this it's so nice. 

Speaker 1:
You know, what's beautiful about what he's saying is get your mind going. Right. What about, think about Ruth? Uh, what about, what about rehab? 

Speaker 5:
Oh, well, that's my favorite. I have to say you hit, I was just talking Torah. She's in Joshua. So I want you to know, just talk about, I just wanna say this, this may not go over well here, I acknowledge this. God could have chosen any Canan night to let the Jews into Canan a Canan Knight poet, a Canan Knight, accountant, 

Speaker 4:
Plumber. 

Speaker 5:
He chose a Canan Knight prostitute. I'm a God fan 

Speaker 1:
That That goes to show you how loving and awesome the God listen, Christian. There is not a God of the old Testament. That's different than the God of the new, that redemptive story. Man. Think about it, whatever you've done in life, God forgave and blessed. Rayhab right. If he can do that, your rehab, he can do that to you. He can give you a brand new life. That's what he does. 

Speaker 5:
And by the way, all right. So I'm gonna say something that I don't know how I don't think everybody will agree with, but it'll it it's thought provoking for your interest. I think that there's a lesson in that he chose a prostitute. There are a lot of lessons. I think there's a lesson in the fact that Tamara Judah's daughter-in-law acted as a prostitute and she is the mother of the Messiah. Yep. Your Messiah and my Messiah. Now, why would that be? And or what, at least what conclusion might we draw from that? I think that in, in, in all real, in all the monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, I think there has been too much emphasis on sexual sin as the premier sin. That's my theory. And I think God wanted to make that claim by doing that. There are a lot worse people than prostitutes. 

Speaker 1:
I want to add one more. This is a tricky one. It's just fun. I just have to get it out. 

Speaker 4:
It's why you're here. 

Speaker 1:
So who was the first Jew? 

Speaker 5:
Abraham? 

Speaker 1:
What was he before? He was a Jew. Where did he live? See this Haba, the book of Habak chapter two, verse four, the judge shall live by faith. God told Abraham that he was justified by faith before Moses was born before Abraham was circumcised. God had already declared 14 years later. You're justified by faith. Is that wild? The first Jew, by the way, is this true? That Juda Jude means to praise or a appraiser worshiper. 

Speaker 5:
It's interesting. I don't know. I don't know. And I know biblical Hebrew really well. I never thought of what the, I thought of it only that his name was Yehuda, which, and that came to mean Jew. Uh, but I don't know if it has a route I'll have to it. You may, well, let us 

Speaker 1:
Know. Tell us on the radio tomorrow. 

Speaker 5:
We'll all right. That's a deal. I will. What time? What time? What time will you talk about this tune in tune in everything tune in all right. The whole three hours. 

Speaker 1:
So I just think it's awesome. There's hope for everybody. God calls Abram out of the ear of the KDS, which was a pagan worshiping region of the world. And God reveals himself to him. And I love it says in the new Testament, in the book of Hebrews 11, eight, this has been a motto of my life. A Abraham went out following God, not knowing where he was going. That's faith. He kept his eyes on the Lord. I mean, he kept his eyes, the Lord a few times, he got off and felt, you know, they went down and, and God said, what are you doing here? And he had to get back on course, but doesn't that happen in life? I'm so grateful that he is a redemptive God and he's merciful. And when you read David, don't, you listen to you guys, do you read David? 

Speaker 1:
When you listen to, you want to be like, David, you see Jack, he, he committed adult and he killed a man's. He killed a woman's husband. And I get that, but he also cut off a Giant's head. And he was an amazing man of God. Isn't he a picture of a life that is redeem David wasn't perfect. He says I was conceived in iniquity, but David also said one thing, have I desired in my life? And that, that I will live after. That's my pursuit. And that is this that I might live. And the house of the Lord, all the days of my life, I don't know about you, but man, that is, that's what I want. 

Speaker 5:
By the way, I would like, 

Speaker 5:
I would like to add your speaking about David and, and, and the immense sins that he committed, not only adultery, but getting arranging for butches husband Rio to be killed in war. And yet he is the great leader, uh, the greatest leader, uh, in the, in the old Testament, outside of Moses. And that is the reason that I believe religious people have far more wisdom than secular people. As a rule. There are always exceptions. There are religious fools and there were some secular wise people, but as a rule and it, it came to four with Donald Trump, religious people were not preoccupied, religious people who, who ironically are very strict on sexual sin were not preoccupied with Donald Trump's sexual sins. Secular people were, We asked what God asked, are you gonna be a great leader? Not, are you a sinner? 

Speaker 1:
God, in the Bible talks about Nene and says, he's my servant, Nebu Canez or Babylon. You look at Donald Trump, come on at the start. Look, the guy's, his tweets back then he doesn't tweet. Like he used to, a lot of people missed that, but, Uh, but his hair, you know, look, Forget all that stuff. But did you know this? 

Speaker 1:
I'm gonna tell you something you guys don't know. And the reason why you don't know is because it hasn't been said, uh, you might appreciate this. Trump gets elected he's in the cabinet. And a friend of mine, a very dear friend of mine is inside that room. Donald Trump goes through the business of the day and he says, is that it it anything else? No, sir, no. Mr. President, that's it. And he goes, well, there's one more thing. We have failed to bring up the issue of relocating the embassy from Tel Aviv to, to Jerusalem. Listen, listen Around the room. Uh, sir, uh, uh, sir, um, the only guy that said you should do it was Ben Carson. Listen, 

Speaker 1:
Sad to say I'm a son of, of, uh, Marine Corps family. It's pretty sad though, that joint chiefs of staff, they were in the room in the Marine general said, Mr. President, with all due respect, I do not have enough Marines on the planet to prevent world war II from happening. Should you do that? He's president Trump said, I didn't ask you if we were going to do it. No, this is true. I'm given it straight to you, president Trump said, I telling you we're going to do it because number one, watch this. This is Donald Trump. Number one, I campaigned on it. Number two, the capital of Israel is Jerusalem and everybody knows it. And he said since June of something under bill Clinton, it became a law. Did you know that it was a law that the president was supposed to relocate and, and, and punted on it. And so did every president, including our dear, uh, Listen, 

Speaker 1:
Trump said, bottom line. We're gonna do it because it's the right thing to do. And this is fun. He asked, he said, we are the United States. Don't tell me we do not own land in Israel. I want to see it. We're not leaving this meeting until I see the land we own in Israel. Guess what happened? They waited. Some guys come in with blueprints and all kinds of stuff. They unveil it, put it on the table. I'm getting this from firsthand experi. They laid it out on the table. Trump said, what is that huge piece of land? That's that's David Friedman's where, where the, uh, ambassador lives. He goes, that's too big. Have you been there? Have you been to the embassy? Yep. Yep. Listen. So he said, uh, I, I want the embassy. And they said, sir, it's gonna take a hundred million. And it's gonna probably take about three to four years. Trump said, May 14th is Israel's birthday. You have a hundred thousand dollars to change out the carpets, paint the walls, get Freedman out and he can sleep somewhere else. This is the embassy. That's what happened, 

Speaker 4:
Dennis? Did you know that story? 

Speaker 5:
Do I know that story? Yeah. 

Speaker 4:
Did you know that story? 

Speaker 5:
Well, not that specifically, but I knew how much opposition there was my wife and I were invited to dinner with then vice president Pence and his wife and his daughter. It was just us another couple. And Eric MIAX who many of you know, by the way I opened up the evening, looking at vice president Pence, I don't think has, uh, laughed at a joke in 11 years. And, uh, I, I said, Mr. Vice president, I'm really my wife and I are truly honored to be here at your residence and have dinner with you. I just don't understand why you invited Eric MIAX 

Speaker 5:
And Metis. And I have a unique of constant insulting of one another. Anyway, he didn't find it funny at all. Uh, I, I did. I often say things that I find funny, cuz I love laughing if I'm the only one in the room. Okay. So levy. But so at that dinner, uh, uh, the vice president to us, it was really dramatic. He was on the phone with virtually every major world leader telling him do not move the embassy, every major world leader, telling the vice president, please communicate this to, to, to your president. He can't do it. There's gonna, the, the Arab world will blow up. The Muslim world will blow up. 53 countries are Muslim. You can't do this. The state department the same exact, you can't do this. Like they told Truman. You can't recognize Israel in 1948 in the state department, the same state department. And Trump just went his Merry old way. It's a very important lesson. 

Speaker 1:
And, and by the way you, it happened, isn't it funny that the moment that the embassy was relocated, did you know, what did you watch nations of the world relocate their embasies too. It happened. Why wasn't it reported? It actually happened. What happens when somebody leads? People will follow both 

Speaker 5:
Directions. That's why you want good, good and bad. 

Speaker 1:
That's right. Good or bad. 

Speaker 4:
All right. We have Jeff us a few minutes because uh, we need to pray, uh, before we leave and I want to get you out here at 8 45. Uh, I have some popcorn questions. You know what that means, right? 

Speaker 5:
No, 

Speaker 4:
It means that you can only give me one word answers. This is can't be another, uh, long. That's not fair. This is hard for you. 

Speaker 5:
I did that one already. When you, 

Speaker 4:
I just have a couple, 

Speaker 5:
I gave you that was it. I fulfilled my quota. 

Speaker 4:
You can do it. You can do it. It's just a quick question. Just a quick answer. How many times have you traveled to Israel? 

Speaker 5:
About 25 

Speaker 4:
Jack 

Speaker 1:
21, 21. 

Speaker 4:
Have you ever thought about running for public office 

Speaker 5:
A lot? 

Speaker 1:
Never. 

Speaker 4:
If you ran, what office would it be? 

Speaker 5:
Vice president. You wanna know why? 

Speaker 4:
Yes. 

Speaker 5:
I have one mission in life to influence people. I have no interest in power. I only have interest in influence. Amen. And a vice president has no power, but has incredible influence. If I went to Oxford, a thousand students would show up. If I went to Bulgaria, 10,000 people would come to a stadium. I want to, to as many people as possible before I die, I can't believe that the internet has made it possible, but that's all I want to do. I, I, I, I am. I am in love with the founders of this country. I believe they were prophets. I really do. Never has a co have coalesced so many rate, God centered men at one time in one place. And, and they that's what they wanted. They knew. They knew as Lord Acton put it power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. They, they made a system where there could be as little power concentrated in any one arena as possible. We're not a democracy, we're a Republic. We were not founded to be a democracy. The founders knew that if you let the, the majority rule, you will end up with tyranny. We have seen that now. That is what the left is about. That's why they're crazed in their hatred of the, of the electoral college. Is that a long answer to, 

Speaker 4:
Yes. That's, that's uh, that's a topic for tomorrow's radio show. 

Speaker 1:
I'd like to revise my answer though. If Dennis is vice president, then I would be president. 

Speaker 4:
Okay. Okay. All 

Speaker 9:
Right. 

Speaker 5:
Woo. 

Speaker 1:
Let him let you know. 

Speaker 4:
I love it right. A couple more real quick, but yes, sir. Just yes or no. Will Trump run in 20, 24? 

Speaker 5:
Will he run 

Speaker 4:
Yes or no? Uh, 

Speaker 5:
Y okay. The you're putting me on the spot because I also need to answer, do I want him to 

Speaker 4:
No, that's not the question. Just, will he run? Yes or no? 

Speaker 5:
Probably 

Speaker 4:
Jack 

Speaker 1:
Probably 

Speaker 4:
Will. Republicans, will Republicans have a landslide victory in the midterms? Yes or no? 

Speaker 5:
Uh, between now and November is so long, so much could change that. I, I respectfully do not answer the question on prediction. All right. I just want to answer that a little further. I am very clear about my life and what people should do. I am working toward their victory. I do not predict it. 

Speaker 1:
I, I believe that Republicans will win. I don't know if it will be a majority because I predict rhinos will lose. The rhinos will be flush. They're gonna lose. So how many office seats are held by rhinos? We're gonna be finding out. So I don't know if they're gonna win, but it's possible. Depends on how many rhinos are in the camp. 

Speaker 4:
Two more. What do you love about KLA and K R a? 

Speaker 5:
What, what do I want, 

Speaker 4:
What do you love about them? 

Speaker 5:
Oh, I have a good answer for that. Let me 

Speaker 4:
Hear it 

Speaker 9:
Popcorn. 

Speaker 5:
I do. I, I will tell you, this is a very important question to me. I, I, I usually know. I am funny. Why was I funny on that one? That it's an important question because we're 

Speaker 4:
Running out of time. 

Speaker 5:
Are you running out of time? It's Listen. This is a, I have a very serious answer to that question. When I interview conservatives who live in Europe, European conservatives, at the end of the interview, I almost always have said for years, you know what? The big difference between your country and my country is they go, what? We have talk radio and you don't. And every one of them says, that's exactly right. Talk. Radio has been the backbone of conservatism in the United States of America. 

Speaker 5:
I've worked. I've worked with Salem since 1999. I adore them and I adore them because they're in it. They wanna make a profit. And I hope they make millions of dollars, but they're in it for the idealism. I worked for ABC for 20 years before K K R a and, and Salem. They were in it for the money. Disney was in it for the money. That's why I left them. They had no interest in values. The money year, the, the, the talk, the better they liked it. Cuz they thought they would get more people. So I, I have seen both worlds. That's why, by the way, I always tell people at speeches for any of my stations around the country, please support their sponsors because they're the people who make talk radio possible. 

Speaker 11:
That's exactly right. 

Speaker 4:
Jackson. 

Speaker 1:
I love what Dennis said a moment ago. Did you catch the word profit? I want KLA. I want Salem broadcasting to profit. You see, well, how does that work? Well, they charge ministries like us to be on what's wrong with that. Nothing. It's perfect. God's people in worship invest in the ministry that they're involved in here. Some of that is taken and it costs money to be on the radio. Let me ask you, listen, follow, follow this through. Follow the prophet in this world, nobody works for a poor person. What happens is they make a profit because they're doing a good work. That's a biblical concept. Secondly, what they provide is the opportunity for us to preach the gospel to millions of people every day. So listen to this from, from worship in the pews, through the ministry, two KK, a Salem broadcasting out to the recipient. 

Speaker 1:
That's driving in traffic or sitting in home, salvations are made and you wanna talk about a profit. That's the profit, how much money will you spend to bring one soul into eternity? Think about it. Some economy's role in certain areas. Isn't it amazing that Jesus said you will choose to either worship God or money? I think that's amazing when the children of the kingdom can take money and use it to advance his word. That's what changes world. That's what change. That's what we need in America. We don't need the answer's not in the white house and it's not in the state house answers in God's house. Because if the truth is told people's lives are affected, which is why there are people in Congress who wanna pass laws to shut KK L a up and to shut Salem down. Because those that are in that family are hate SP each propaganda. Why? Because we don't sing their songs and we don't promote their mantra of social justice or isms. We preach the gospel. Dennis speaks truth and that's worth investing in. I'm grateful of the Salem. We work with them for years, then it keep doing it. 

Speaker 4:
All right, let's all stand and let's thank our guests here today, Dennis Frager and Jack Hibbs. Let's thank the Lord for them. 

Speaker 3:
This Jack Hibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listeners supported. Will you? That are partnering with us through a special gift, go to Jack hibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.