Forevergreen: Behind The Story

Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. Hey everybody, we are in store for a great treat. I'm so excited about this. You're going to be excited about it. We are going to take you behind the scenes to an amazing, I'm going to call it a technology parable that is worthy of that title and so so articulate regarding the gospel. Let's find out what we're talking about. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast. Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us, that's like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs. Well hey everybody, we are super excited. I got to tell you, you're going to be excited. I am super excited. I think that the 68-year-old guy, since I saw this short film, became a nine-year-old all over again. We're going to be speaking to Jeremy Spears and Nathan Engelhart regarding the remarkable creation of something that I've never seen before. I mean, this is in the realm of illustration and communication. This is my opinion. It just transcends so many things that you have seen. But these two men, for example, Nathan, he's an animation supervisor who has worked on films such as Reckett Ralph, Big Hero 6. My grandkids love that. Zootopia, frozen two in canto, Rio, and so much more. He has been, that his Nathan has been, he has written and directed, the Oscar nominated animated short film Forever Green, which is what we're going to be talking about today, which is his directorial debut, quite frankly. And then also Jeremy Spears is an award-winning story artist. And you're going to see why in a moment. And he has helped create beloved characters and stories for such films as Zootopia 2 in canto, Reckett Ralph, Moana, Frozen. And in his free time, he creates unique wooden sculptures, which I hope you'll show us something like that today. And in his woodland workshop, his latest passion in project is directing the Oscar nominated animated short film Forever Green as well. Gentlemen, welcome to our quick podcast together. I know that you guys are up against a hard stop as I am, but welcome to our show. And just for those who are not familiar, when I saw your short film, I was captivated. I don't even remember how I found it, how it came to me. Maybe you guys sent it to me. I don't know. I sent it out to everybody that I knew, not knowing if I was to do that or not. I just did it. I just did it. And then the next day at church, before service began, I just said, play it. I want everybody to see this. And I'd say we got flooded with comments from people across the United States. What work this is, can you guys tell us, take us back into the creativity of it, how you guys came about doing this? Because what a gospel presentation. And here's what's awesome to about it. It's not a gospel presentation. It's actually a word of discipleship to believers who think they have just fallen too far away and God cannot bring them back. So can you guys just go off on this? Because I just want to hear from you. Our audience wants to hear from you. What a great work this is. Thank you. Well, first of all, thank you for having us on. It's such an honor to be on this with you, Pastor. And gosh, it's been a quite a journey for both Jeremy and I. We started this journey about six years ago. And I think of around September 2019 right before COVID. So this sort of our COVID project while we were all in lockdown that we worked a lot on. And so we, Jeremy and I, we had a desire to use our gifts for the Lord and had an opportunity to do that with this film to tell a story about unmerited grace and a kind of love that is, you know, forever, a forever kind of love. And so we desired to, you know, set off on that journey. And we, this film was actually made by 200 volunteers. Everyone in their free time. And so no one got paid. We did this in our nights, our weekends, holidays. And after six years, you know, that's a long time to do that, to make a 12-minute short film. But so finally, being at this point now, we're able to unveil it and share it with the world. We're just, we couldn't be more excited. So wow, amazing. Yeah, we're, I just wanted to say at the same, it's an honor to get to speak with you today. And thanks for having us on. I'm Jeremy, by the way, I don't know if our names are going to be at the bottoms, but just let you know. And so yeah, it's just, it's such a treat to get to start sharing about this film. Nathan and I, when we started on it, I think it was, it was that slow reveal that God would kind of go, hey guys, by the way, you could do this with this short. Oh, and you could do this with this, and you could do it. And it was just this continual, just sort of standing back in awe at what the Lord was doing in our lives personally. And then also just along the way on the making of this film. And I just wanted to say just kind of how briefly how we got started. Nathan and I, we've been pals for years. We've worked together on many projects, as you've heard. And so we, we kind of had this one lunch one day where I had just had my, my fourth child, our little guy, Rhett, who's now six, lo and behold, six years. And, and Nathan was like, he's been working on a tree, a tree idea based on the three trees storybook, if you've heard of that picture. Great. And he, he basically said, Jeremy, what if, what if you helped me direct this film? What if we worked on it together and do your thing? I'm a story guy. He's an animator. Between the two of us, we could probably make something. And so, so I went off for a couple of weeks and kind of did the thing that I'm used to doing, which is you take an idea and you, you pull it apart and you, it's like a, it's like a car. You know, you pull the pieces apart and then you look at everything and you kind of know how to put it back together. But you just want to see is, is there things that maybe we don't need or maybe we need to add to get this car really, really moving. So, anyways, that's what I did. In that process, I, I came across this image of a, in spoiler alert, if you haven't seen the film, the, there's a tree that had fallen across the divide and it was a big giant redwood tree and there's a waterfall behind it. And I saw that image and a little bit of background is I had for years been encouraged to be more outspoken with my faith to share it in a visual way as always the, the goal that we do in story. We always try to tell a story visually. And I saw that image and it was like a lightning bolt moment where it was like, okay, that's the story. I saw, I had been, so just to show you a little wood carving, this is, let me get it and adjust it in the, the frame. This is this bear that I had been carving back in 2018, 2019. I, I made a bunch of these, reproduce them and sold them. And so I was deep in bear, bear country at the time. And, and I, I thought, okay, if there's a tree that fell across the divide, that could represent, you know, at what Christ did for us. That he, that's, it's kind of the classic Bible tract image of God on one side man on the other of a divide. And there's a cross in between that, that is the bridge to safety. And I thought, okay, well, what would the character be that, that, you know, they could be running across this, this, this fallen tree. And I was like, oh, what about a bear? So I, so I, I came back to Nathan. And I pitched him a sort of a fixed up version of, of the story that he'd been working on. And he's like, oh, that's, that's nice. You know, I said, but I have one more thing that I got it. I just want to show you this. No hard feelings. I just want to, you know, and so I, I showed him the second idea. And we got to, I got to that image. And Nathan goes, stop. He's like, just hold on a second. This was crazy. Nathan, you want to take over? Well, what was funny was that I had just drawn that same image. And so this was sort of a, because there was, I had a coworker and was just sharing the gospel with them. And they had asked why the cross. And so I was like, well, let me draw it. Why? And you know, here's the god man, the, the sin that divides us. And then that bridge that crosses. And you, you see that it reveals the cross. And he was like, oh, whoa, okay. You know, and I had a great conversation like, oh, yeah, hang on to that because, you know, the enemy will try to snatch that away and tone the parable the four soils. And, and so, you know, and gave him a Bible. And, and so it was just, it was a cool moment. But what Jeremy didn't mention was during that time when I had invited him in on that, I had, you know, it started as an adaptation, but then it had evolved to one tree. And it was kind of inverse where the tree had something to learn as opposed to a bear. And, and so, and there was, there was elements, spiritual elements. And, and I was wrestling through a couple things. And it may sound silly to some, but, um, you know, should we have verses on fantasy? Should we show Christ? You know, things like that that are maybe for some people not, they're not convicted or by, but for me, I just, I hadn't thought about that or the responsibility of that before. And so I was really going through that. And just I didn't want to bring any disrepute upon the name of our Lord or, you know, the scripture or whatever. And so I, I mean, I was really distraught about this. And it was right around the time I was inviting Jeremy. And I had prayed, I said, Lord, even if you give Jeremy a completely different idea, just make that plain to me, make like, I don't have to be the guy. I don't have to have that spark of the idea. And, um, and so Jeremy went off to the his thing, but that's what I was praying while he was going away. And then in that same little two week period, I had that witnessing opportunity where I drew that thing. So now let's fast forward to that moment. Jeremy pitches this thing. I see that drawing. I'm like, I just drew that thing. And it was sitting on my desk. And, and he goes, I know about it. I was like, wait, what? I guess I was like, come on. Let's, let's come in. I want to show you the drawing. And he goes, I saw it. And he goes, what do you mean you saw it? And so if you want to take over again. No, no, I just, I want to make sure it's like, yeah, I had to go down the day before to just talk to you about something, you know, I don't know. And I was like, or maybe like, hey, I'm going to pitch you the stuff tomorrow or whatever. And, um, and I saw that on his desk. And I just, I was like, this is crazy. And one of his, one of his friends was in the office there with, and I was like, I was like, Ryan, and this is crazy. I, I just drew this drawing. And it's, it's now it's here in front of me. And so it was in that moment that, you know, as I show him in, as I started telling her, I waited for my moments, like, I was like, okay, I think I think that got him. I think I can, I think I can show him this drawing. Maybe he'll react. It's sure enough. It was, it was God really, honestly, like, it was, it was the clarification that we both needed to go, okay, go, go do this crazy thing. And it kind of, it was, there was no turning back at that point because it, like, I think when, when God asks you to do something, I truly believe that he said it on our hearts to do this. No doubt. Um, that, uh, yeah. So that's the story. Yeah, it was a huge answer to the prayer for me too. You know, it was, it felt like there was permission to go and do this thing and felt like the Lord's hand was behind it. And I mean, we, we always call him, we don't have an executive producer title on there because we always give credit to the Lord. He's our executive producer. And as always, been leading the project and providing for the project. And, you know, we, we were very prayerful over the project. And so it was just so amazing to have that be the beginning of the project. And we just set sail off that and both Jeremy and I then started to build off of the, you know, the foundation that Jeremy had given and brought in other components, the prodigal son thing. And, uh, yeah, and then got to where we are today here. It's so amazing. And you know, it's great. One of you mentioned earlier, uh, spoiler alert. Uh, we don't have to worry about spoiler alerts with this because I've watched it five or six times and every single time it has drawn me deeper into some of the things that you guys have tucked away, knowingly or unknowingly as treasures for the believer. This is something that it's not like, and I'm not putting down any other, uh, illustration, but, um, you know, I remember way, way back before you guys were probably born. I think Pixar started out with, uh, an old man playing chess in the park. And that was, you know, that was pretty, it was awesome. We all loved it. But it was pretty simple. There was no, you know, there wasn't anything where I needed to watch it again and again and again. Other than it was cute. This what you've done. This is not only beautiful, but there's that mystique of the animation that you use. It's almost kind of, um, oh, I'm not, I'm not an artist, but it's almost kind of like, uh, paper cuttings or, or like you said, the wood carvings. Um, but there is, I mean, I noticed that, uh, when the crows showed up, uh, oh, my, my heart went, oh, birds, not good. Something's going to go wrong. And so I got, I got anxious. And then you see the little guy, the bear being, uh, lured away. And then he comes to his, uh, the, the prodigal son, you know, a pot of gold, so to speak, an abandoned campsite with a bunch of trash. And he thinks he's just inherited, you know, the lottery. And, um, it was, it's just so deep. And so, um, my question to you guys is, uh, for those who are now going to watch it, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're seeing this broadcast. They're going to go watch it. Um, take us behind the scenes. Uh, who is this little bear? Um, and, and what about, uh, the tree, uh, expressions? Please talk to me about, uh, the expressions, the eyes, the, the emotions. Talk to me about that. Take me behind into your heart as to what these little things represent. Sure. Yeah. Jeremy, want me to take that? Yeah. Go for it. Cool. Um, so Jeremy is an incredible wood carver. You've seen his stuff. And so, um, early on, you know, we, I mean, there was already trees in wood, of course, and he's a wood carver. And so that seemed like a pretty easy putting it together, but you don't want to just do a cool aesthetic style for no narrative reason, right? You want the, the visual style of any film, uh, to kind of grow out of the narrative and the storytelling. So, um, it's one thing to have a cool idea, but you really want it to, to resonate also with on the character level. Uh, and that's what we tried to do with Forever Green. So, um, you know, we wanted it to make it feel like in this sort of Genesis one kind of way where, you know, God, uh, making man in his own image, we wanted to have, it looked like the tree, the bear could have been carved from the tree so that when they're together in frame, they just, they go together. Um, and that whole side is sort of, uh, that they're on as sort of this hang, handcrafted world and, uh, very stylized, but, you know, when the bear then goes prodigal and is sitting in the materials that is vacuum-formed plastics and, um, you know, steel wool and all these other man-made materials. Um, he, uh, it will look, there'll be a juxtaposition and with that antithetical material that, uh, it will feel subliminally wrong. Like, you don't want the bear to be sitting in that pile of trash. You want to be sitting in the wooden loving arms of that benevolent tree. And so I think that was very intentional and, and we even did a little stop-motion nod. So that's sort of the animation technique that both Jeremy and I, we love stop-motion animation, uh, studios like Ardman or Rankin Bass, those old Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer, uh, special Christmas specials that you remember. Um, they had kind of a nostalgic, um, looked to them and, uh, we were very much inspired by that and, and so, but in CG, since this wasn't stop-motion, um, you know, really what we wanted to do is if we had all the time in the world, was to have Jeremy carve a unique wood carving for every frame of animation, but that would have taken forever. It would have taken, yeah, a hundred years. So, yeah. So we used the power of technology in the computers and we had an incredible team that helped us build a stop-motion-like texture system that helped it make it look like it was stop-motion. And really, what's cool about that is that it was, they're the only characters that oscillate like that and, and have, uh, that look like it's a unique wood carving for every frame of animation. And it almost serves as a heartbeat, uh, for those characters. Uh, and it serves many purposes, but they're the only two characters that do that. Um, and when the tree is in the area that we call Death Valley, uh, after sacrificing himself, um, you, you really feel that, that, that, that the tree after kind of being trained the whole short up until that point that that is kind of the life heartbeat of the character. And then it being completely still next to this very slow oscillating texture of the bear. Hopefully that will hit harder visually. And so we're always as filmmakers looking for those opportunities to say something specific with our animation, with our lighting, with our effects. And the sound design, every part of the film, um, it, you know, the, those 200 volunteers who can't, you know, highlight them enough that they brought their masterful craft to the table to, to, to, to, to like a beautiful mosaic. Everyone putting their piece of the tile to create kind of the, the big frame of the, the film. Yeah. And I, I want to jump into and, and you had mentioned this specifically. And I'm so glad you noticed all those details because I, for all of us that worked on it so hard. And again, each one of those 200 people, some of them would work on just the crow, or they'd work on just the texture of the crow or the animation of the crow. So knowing that it communicated and that it was, it was the effects of the crow, they had some dust particles. And so I wanted to talk about this for a second because I think this is, we geek out about this, um, as, as animators. But, uh, with those crows, um, there's a fun little story of, again, just how, uh, you, you, you get stuck on an idea and you just, like, what, what is that solution going to be? And it was a prayerful moment. I literally was like, Lord, just give, give us the answer. What should these crows be made of? And, um, we, we knew they were going to be the tempers. They were going to be this, this, uh, a luring figure, you know, that, that, that lets the audience know that that's where he's heading. They can actually fly over to the other side. A good friend of mine, Don Doherty is actually the one who, um, came up with, he's like, you should have it be crows. And so there's just like all these people adding these little things in and we just go, oh my goodness, that's it. Well, uh, I'm sitting around a campfire. We had gone on a, a family road trip to Yellowstone and I'm looking at all these rocks and different things around. I'm like, okay, maybe this black rock or, you know, this, this could be the texture of this crow. It could be an organic thing, you know, and, and then, uh, I, I go down to the campfire the next morning after just really thinking about this a lot. And I look in the fire and there's a burnt piece of wood and I pick it up and I just kind of rotate it in the glistening, you know, the glisten from the sun. And it has that sort of multi-color even that, that, uh, oily wing of a, of a crow has. And I just, I flipped out. I, I sent Nathan a quick video of it. And I'm like, dude, we got the crow. And so, and it, and it works thematically that it's this, it's this character that has been over there. It's been messing around and stuff that shouldn't be. And that trash is not where they're supposed to be. And, uh, and that they're sort of a representation of what you could, you could become if you let yourself get burned by the fire. And so it just, it was this, just a piphany moment, you know, again, like, I, it felt like, oh, that's a gift. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. I love them. Yeah, really cool. I love it. You guys, one of the scenes, I don't know if people picked up on it, but it just grabbed my heart, which is why I do believe this, this one scene I'm going to bring up in, in the short time of the, of the film that was shown to our church. So we showed it at all three services. Um, and so you're looking at, you know, roughly 2500 to 3000 people per service. As soon, as soon as it came on, there was silence. And how an animation can put smiles. We heard, we saw smiles. We heard laughter. We, we, we heard a gasp. It was remarkable what it was doing to, you know, at least like a beta test, you know, you're talking about thousands of people in a matter of, of a few hours seen this thing. And I almost wish we could have had like a, you know, a response by the audience type of pool. It was off the charts amazing. And so, but this is, this is one of the things that the first cited, the first time I saw it, grabbed me and it moved me to emotion. And it was this. The tenderness, the tenderness and yet the, the sovereignty of God, where the bear is enjoying creation, the tree is looking down at him, kind of parenting him and the porcupine goes by. And the bear is curious about the porcupine. And you would think that the tree would intervene before he ever got near the porcupine, but the tree willingly turns instead of rescuing him from this, this pain, you could see the tree say, I'm going to go through this pain with you. I'm not going to stop you because you've got to learn from it. And, and as soon as you get that needle in your nose, I'm going to be here to comfort you. But man, that minister to me about the heart of our God, sometimes we're, we've got our minds set on things that we're not going to let, we're not going to let it go. And, and the Lord will, we'll say, all right, if that's what you want to do. Let's see how this turns out. You're going to learn from this. And he, of course, he's crying. He's got that one needle sticking out of his nose. And there's the compassion of God who pulls it out of his nose. And it was just so moving for me about the character of God that just blew my mind. Um, yeah, those kinds of things are this, this, this, I don't know how you guy. In fact, I told our staff. I said, I don't know how these guys packed so much biblical truth in such an attractive way that no one, I don't care who you are. I don't care what your worldview is. I don't care if you're an atheist. You cannot see this film without relating to it because everybody's the bear. Well, can I, I want to jump on that because so the that is tremendous. I, I love that you, you pointed to that moment because that's one of our, we just enjoyed that so much making that that moment and everyone involved. But we have actually had multiple people. And these are, you know, these are, these are people that have completely different ways of probably thinking about things. We don't know. We don't know where everyone's heart's at. But we, they actually come to us and say, Hey, I want you to know that we need more of this kind of content that I that I love this. But I'm an atheist. And like, you know, it's, you can tell that there's this kind of moment of like, they have to explain that to us to say, I love what you are all doing. This is, this is, this needs to exist. And what a confirming thing that that has been and it's been multiple times Nathan that that we have had, you know, that people have been speaking into it that way. And I also just wanted to say that it first and foremost, because, you know, when you, when you spend so much time on something, it needs to be, it needs to be worth it. It needs that, you know, for you to invest your, your personal time like this and to sacrifice your time. But we, we knew that that our, our walk with God, what, what Jesus did for us, taking our place and paying our fine the way that he did that there's each of each of us had a personal story of that journey where we, we were that knucklehead bear. And we went away. We, we disregarded in even for the smallest of things, even for a bag of chips, like everyone can know what a bag of chips is. And that's why it was just like, it was such an enjoyable thing when you found these, these sort of this imagery that could kind of be a code something to bring people together and go, oh, I know exactly what that is. I have that because what you're saying is exactly right. We are all that bear. And, and, and, you know, Nathan and I, it was, it was our personal journey to walk people through a beat by beat version of when you fall away and you, you know, and you, you realize that you get to the end of yourself and you say there's nothing else that I can do. And so here's this bear on the edge of that cliff. And he's still hold non. He's still hold non of his precious, you know, things. And he looks across the way. And now he's desperate, right? And he goes, all right, I'm going to make the choice. And I'm going to, I, and, but it's only because of, it's only because of the trees generosity falling across, blowing the smoke away so that he can take a breath. He looks up. And only because the flame gets on the tree, the flame, he took upon himself the flame. And so now it not only has you brewed himself, there's no way back, but he's taken on the flame. And it's in that moment that the animator of this, this wonderful, wonderful guy, Brendan Gottlieb, animated this shot, which it's, it's him looking up and sort of having this moment of like, oh my goodness, this is what I've done. And he looks out and he tosses it, he tosses it away. And, and that is that, that is the beat by beat version of how you truly get saved. You, you, you don't save yourself. There's nothing we can do that it's, it is God reaching to us. And we have to let go of our sin, reach up and be saved. Jeremy, yeah, just have what I just want to stick in there at this moment with what you, I'm, because I'll for it, I'll forget. Jeremy, what you just, what you just said, another captivating moment for me is I was looking at the face of the tree when all of this processing was going on with a little bear. And when, when the bear gets on the trees, uh, let's say belly, right? On, on his belly. And the cost where the scripture says that Jesus for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising it, shame, offering himself, sacrificing himself, that the face on the tree has got, um, I don't know how to say, I, I lacked the English. I, the eyes are full of compassion and yet, uh, sacrifice. And there is a, a, a, a type of a smile on that part of the bark of its, of its mouth where it is saying, clearly it is saying, um, because this has happened, this is what I'm doing for you. It's costing my life, but I'm so happy to do that so that you can carry on your life. Uh, and basically, I, but the thought was do this in remembrance of me, because at the end, I see the bear living his life in the offspring of the tree, doing this in remembrance of the sacrifice. And it was just so, you know what, I, I'm not a prophet, but I gotta tell you, I've spent years in Russia, witnessing evangelism in Europe. And we used to do, of course, skits that were beyond language. So we would act out things to communicate the gospel. And, uh, I just believe that this film is going to go so international for ministries to use because you guys so perfectly articulated beyond the gospel, the gospel, restoration, uh, commitment, discipleship, love, sacrifice, sovereignty, choice matters. Um, there's an evil world that's on fire, but there's a way to live again. I just believe, I mean, I'm telling you right now, if we were heading out right now to anywhere in the world with a mission team, I, I would be asking you guys, can we take the film and show it to the streets of Paris or Moscow because I'm telling you, it is going to be a spiritual home run, even if somebody's death, they don't even have to be able to hear to get the gospel. It is truly remarkable. I want everybody, listen, team, everybody, I, you've got to watch this time and time again and get it out into the, to the eyes and the ears of everybody you know. So, um, tell me, I'm curious. Uh, what's behind the porcupines? Is there any, is there anything I've missed about the porcupines? I mean, that's just incredibly adorable. Look, look, I did want to circle back to something you said, Pastor, there is that it was so, um, very much intentional. Jeremy and I, I mean, we really fought long and hard about what the, again, this isn't the gospel, but it is a picture of that, that unmerited grace, right? Of what Christ did for us. So, there's a Christ likeness. And so, but we, even though even that, that being the case, we did think about the theological ramifications of what a visual would convey, right? If the bear climbed up, you know, the tree on his own, it could be construed as works righteousness, for example, right? And so, if you, and if the tree didn't push him, you know, like the running across, you know, it's, there's a sanctification kind of piece of that, you know, that's like, it's not all of us, right? It's us and the Lord working together after you are saved and justified. And so, there's an element of, you even see the tree that gives him a shove, like, it's not, like, it's even at the very end, right? Before he makes a jump, he's not going to make it. And you can sort of see the animator added a little flick to the, the trunk that actually helped him get up there. So, all these things are very much intentional where we could say, this act was all the tree, not the bear. And that's to parallel, you know, the allegory of it's all the Lord that does the work. And it's not us. So, anyways, just, I mean, I think you're, you're right. And I'm, we're so happy that you picked up on all that because it was things that were very much intentional and trying to make sure, or because when you, when you have a visual, there's a lot of responsibility in making sure you're seeing the correct thing that you want to say. And then to be able to layer in all the other, you know, things like discipleship and everything else, hopefully follow suit as well. But, so we're just, so I just want to make a quick comment on that and just how happy I am to hear that. So, one little quick, one little quick thing that that we've experienced just now that the film is out there and getting seen. So, we're getting lots of wonderful comments and, and they're coming from all different angles. But one of the ones that that I particularly, Nathan and I particularly enjoying seeing is ones where, where people are watching it. They're sticking through all the way and then they write their review and they say, they say that bear did not deserve that. That bear does not deserve that. That bear does, and they keep, it's like the same comment. And, and I, it's just like, it's so encouraging because that is why we made the film was to, if there's any perfect tea up to a conversation, it's that. It's saying, yep, you're right. You are right. We don't deserve that. And let me, let's talk about that. You know, I know I don't deserve that. Like, I'm a, I'm the chief of sinners, you know, and let me tell you about my experience. And then it's just like, to me, if, if this short could help, as you're talking about getting, getting out into the world, it's going to, if it could just help Christians in general, just be more open with their faith and sharing their faith. That would be amazing. But we also know that it can also communicate and baffle people that watch it, that they don't understand, like, how that does, that's undeserved. And then again, maybe someone will be able to come alongside them and say, yeah, well, let's talk about that. You know, so this is really encouraging. So, yeah. To all that, I would say this, what you guys have done is truly anointed and inspired by the Lord. And the, one of the, there's many evidences to this, but one of them is that you see a presentation of truth delivered for a child, profound enough to cause a crowd of thousands to break a tear or laugh or gasp. And you guys know that in the making of movies or anything like that, you're going to target an audience. We're going to target this audience. This transcends that. And only the Lord can do that because you've got an old man and you've got a little kid getting it that is just absolutely so powerful. And one of the things that, and I think you alluded to this earlier, but I just want to make sure you talked about that it's not of works. He made the sacrifice. Did I read this right that at the part where the tree decides, I'm going to lay down my life. Am I reading it right when you see him kind of like, I got to get myself out of this earth. Is that true? Is that what was going Yeah, it's trying to uproot himself. Yeah, uproot himself. Yeah, just so powerful. Yeah, well, let me just respond quickly to the thing he just said, which was, I mean, this is loosely based off the prodigal son story, as we mentioned before, but you know, the whole, this resonates with everyone thing. I mean, everyone is either a parent or as a child of a parent. Right. And so everyone. And so there was a universality in Jesus. He was is the master storyteller. And so I mean, he knew what he was doing. And so it's, you know, in that culture, you know, what what that meant to ask for an early inheritance and and to then go and squander that. I mean, people haven't changed since, you know, 2000 years ago. I mean, they're still selfishness. They're still evil in the world. They're still people who hate one another. And so I think everyone can resonate or take something away from it because if there's a universal, as you said, there's universal truths that are just embedded in life that God has given us, whether it's familial or spiritual or environmental or whatever, there are so many different layers. I think to this that our desire was always from the beginning to have this be a feast that everyone can enjoy that it could resonate with everyone, but then can also have great deep conversations afterwards as Jeremy said. So yeah, I just wanted to point at, you know, Jesus, the master storyteller. And I think that's a good part in why this resonates across the board, you know. Well, and I have to, I want to jump on that real quick. And it was so, it was just encouraging to us, again, to go to all of these, these friends that we've worked with for years at Disney and even there was folks outside of Disney that worked on this with us. And it was, it was just this thing of like, you know, we had a chance to share, but say we understand that we all don't have the same, you know, we don't come from the same places, you know, in our in our in our spiritual walks or in our whatever. But it was just really cool to see everyone coming together and saying we all agree on this is an important thing to say and that we're willing to put our put our free time into this thing, which was just again, it was we just we can't love up on our crew enough and thank them for all that they they gave to help bring this thing to life. So it really it's it's all in them. So good. You know, I think the word disarming would be a good word that this this delivery of truth, you cannot find fault with it. Think about it. What would somebody possibly have angst with this presentation? And then disarming. It's almost as though you could show it. Somebody one of you guys mentioned how hateful the world is. It's almost like, gosh, can I show you this before you go off and do your hatred? Watch this. It's so disarming. I mean, who's going to walk away from this beautifully presented? You know, just call it an animated cartoon for the most basic way. It's what do I want to watch that for? Just just give it 15 or 12 minutes, whatever the length of it. Just watch this. It's so disarming. It's like, who can find fault with this? It's just oh, it's it's just so good. And I think yeah, I think that's the power of storytelling though, right? I think stories have a way of conveying deep survival information as Brian McDonald would say. I think that's a it's a really neat thing just to be able to tell a story to have someone get sucked in. And then again, without feeling too preachy or anything like that, but you're able to entertain, but then also have a POV. And I mean, again, that's exactly what the Prophet Nathan did to David, right? Which was, you know, he's confronting him with Bashiba. And he's telling him a little story about, you know, this guy stole this little lamb. And you know, David's like, he's into the story. And he's like, that man must pay. And he's like, that man is you, right? There's something about story that it's so disarming, especially when you're invested in it. And that layer, that veneer of storytelling sometimes can help you to see like David was able to see the truth about yourself. And I think that's always I think what any filmmaker would try to convey is that message that's underneath. But again, done in an artful, artful, non preachy sort of entertaining way that. And when you do that, it will always come across as truthful and sincere. And I think people can pick up on that. And there's one last thing off to that is the pine cone. That you know, there's just truth in our in nature and our work, you know, as we understand everything around us. So a pine cone for those giants, Koya Redwoods, it needs fire. It needs heat for it to break open for the seals to get undone and for it to replant. And there was just something that again, it was like all those little things, those little details. There's one last thing I was going to share is Joe Sutton, who's this amazing illustrator, a friend of ours, that worked on the film. He he watched a very first pass of this and we used to not have the tree. The tree regrouped, but it was the bear planting the tree. And you know, basically just saying, oh, I'm going to plant many trees. And the tree never really had, it was just a tree. And what was so cool is, is Joe goes and the bear used to look over the edge and the tree was just gone. He fell away and he never got a moment. And Joe goes, guys, I think I think Christ would be smiling back at us. I think that he would be happy. He would be happy to take this upon himself. Yes. And you pointed this at this earlier faster. But it was just like this, this great again, everyone adding these little, these little details to help you feel all the, all the right things that Nathan was, you know, you're just talking about there. It's all that stuff that adds up, you know. So good. You guys have produced, if I might be so bold, you guys have produced, created a modern day parable, the word parabolic. Jesus obviously spoke in parables. What a lot of people don't realize is that the Jewish scholars will tell you that the Hebrew form of bringing a message that was taught by a rabbi would be that message or that doctrine given. It could have been an hour or two hour long message. But it's always ended with a parable, which causes all of the truth and the doctrine that was preceding the moment of the parable, which is the bow on top to make it, to make it technicolor. So notice when it says Jesus sat down and taught them saying, notice most of Jesus's teaching is wrapped up in a parable. And that parable is the, is the postmark of a tremendous message. So what, what you guys have done, you've taken the reality of a tremendous message and you in the modern day technology to modern day eyes, you have so perfectly honored the very nature of Jesus's teachings of parabolic delivery to param, param means to be alongside and balic is to cast to cast alongside truth and let the receiver decide on what to do. That's why when a parable is given some receive and some don't, the parable actually judges the listener. God doesn't even judge the listener. They choose to accept his very, very graphic truth or reject it. And it's a remarkable thing because God invented parabolic teaching and you and I first hear about that in Genesis 1, 1, where in the beginning God created. And so you guys have honored the Lord, you've honored biblical doctrine, your creativity is so Christlike and like you said, but not preachy. And I don't think Jesus is preachy. It's just beautiful. You guys, I can't with a few seconds I have left. What, what can you tell us? What's next? I'm sure everybody's, I'm dying to find out, hey, what are you going to do in the next six years? This is amazing. We have to have more. Well, I'll just jump in. You know, again, as we walk by faith, as we, as we take those steps, we're just asking the Lord to keep directing our steps. We've met so many wonderful people, including yourself throughout all this process. And it really feels like I think God has said it on our hearts that it'd be great to make more content like this. That just tells things that are true that people can come around and enjoy together. Whatever walk a life you're from, those are the things that I think are on Nathan and I, you know, that's on our hearts. We've through these six years, we've had a lot of conversations about what could be next? What could be next? And we're just really enjoying this moment right now. I would keep saying like it's like pop in the popcorn, sitting back and just enjoying watching the Lord work this out. And I think that he'll bring the right people along. Yeah. Again, you know, just see what he has, what he has for us is really exciting. So yeah, I will say the Bible is a big book and there's a lot of amazing truth. And this is just one story of many, you know, and so I think that that excites us. And, you know, Lord willing, there'll be other opportunities. So yeah, so good. Jeremy Spears and Nathaniel, Engelhart, you guys have just opened my eyes and, and you know, Jesus said in Matthew 11, for us to enter the kingdom of heaven, we have to become like children. And that's exactly what he met. Not not childish childlike. And you guys have taken us there in this remarkable work. I'm encouraging everybody to click on or to tap on what you see provided for you to watch it for yourself. But it's been an incredible joy. Look forward to seeing what's coming forth from you guys. And very, very proud of you and anything that we can do to help you along the way. I don't think you need our help. But if you want somebody to just jump up and down and shout about how great it is, here I am, you know, send me. But well, we do. We need prayer. We need prayer. We said that this film has been powered by prayer. And we would like that to continue. So anyone watching it can pray for the project and that the Lord's will would be done. And then I would get out there and it would spark many great conversations. And that is the prayer. And I would say, my hope, too, and I know Nathan is like, we would hope that people would hear again, the things we've talked about on this hour together. Hopefully you hear the story of how this film, how it was orchestrated, not by us, you know, we're just tools here. But it's just, I hope you're inspired and I hope you go, hey, there's something that, whatever you do for a living that you'll go, there's something more that I could do for the Lord. And so I really hope that it just sparks good conversation. Please help us again, yes, by prayer, but share the film, share the story, how that you've heard it, you know, share it out there. And just hopefully you're encouraged as we are just to see the reactions that everyone's having. So thank you so much. Amazing. Jeremy and Nathan, thank you so much. God bless you guys. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you for having us again. You bet. Thank you. This Jack Hibbs podcast as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.