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May 2, 2022

Jack Hibbs and Dr. Frank Turek Discuss Infanticide and AB2223

Jack Hibbs joins author and apologist Dr. Frank Turek to expose this unbelievably evil bill and to let us know what we can do about it. Pastor Jack also reveals why he takes such a public stand on these issues that have become political, and who resists him the most when he does (you might be surprised just who that is). Frank and Jack also talk about how you can get informed to fight back.

Can you believe that California is about to pass a law that would allow people to literally murder their children up to 28 days AFTER birth? We are not making this up! See AB 2223 (

Jack Hibbs joins author and apologist Dr. Frank Turek to expose this unbelievably evil bill and to let us know what we can do about it. Pastor Jack also reveals why he takes such a public stand on these issues that have become political, and who resists him the most when he does (you might be surprised just who that is). Frank and Jack also talk about how you can get informed to fight back.

By the way, if you don’t live in California, you should still be concerned and take action. Children are about to be killed, and what starts in California usually spreads to other states.

For more information regarding Dr. Frank Turek go to

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Today Dr. Frank Turk joins me. Frank is an American apologist author, radio host, and a good friend of mine. And we're gonna sit down and talk about something very raw and very real. It's gonna be a conversation about California state assembly, bill 2223. Now, if you're not aware of it, you need to stay tuned because it's coming to a state near you. If it's not stopped here. So we're gonna be dropping some pretty huge truth bombs. And I gotta tell you if you're a pastor parts of this conversation may be uncomfortable for you, but listen, that's what we're here for to speak truth. Don't forget that you can always subscribe to the Jack Gibbs podcast by hitting subscribe, where you listen to your podcast. So just your pods. Turn up the volume and get ready. Let's roll 

Real life. 

Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture Today. If this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings to us. That's like saying amen, or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now, open your hearts to what God word has to say to you. 

Assembly bill 2223 was authored by Oak Oakland assemblywoman, Buffy wick, and Buffy wicks is working in conjunction with governor Gavin Newsom. It came about because Newsom immediately when he saw that the us Supreme court could possibly overturn Roe V. Wade, he went into overdrive on evil. And so there was this collusion in Sacramento to quickly get ahead, get something on the books that would enshrine murder in California. Should they lose Roe V. Wade, uh, nationally, you gotta remember Frank I'm currently in a lawsuit, uh, which we I'll be, uh, testifying soon. And we, we, we assume to go to the us Supreme court. I'm in a lawsuit right now because I sued the governor of California because our health insurance programs in California have to provide, uh, uh, elective, a board funding. I refused to do that. We lost our healthcare coverage. So I'm currently in a lawsuit, uh, and that is now, uh, coming up. 

Why, why did we do this? Because as a church, as a Christian and as a concerned citizen, if we don't stand for the sanctity of life, I mean, this is the line I believe from the old Testament to this moment where God makes it very clear. If you're gonna sacrifice your children, that's where I've had enough of you as a state or a nation. And I I'm, I am going to shake my robe as it were off of, uh, you off of my robe in judgment. And I think we're right at that, that point. So we've gotten to this, this issue now, Frank, where as we discuss on this program, your, your listeners are highly educated and engaged. They're gonna find it a challenge to believe that you and I are actually speaking truth. I've been in media all two weeks print and TV, and they can't believe it. And frankly, I find it hard to believe, but we've read the bill. ADF has read the bill. Pacific justice Institute has read the bill and, uh, it's insane. 

Their act really gonna allow the death of babies up to 30, or is it 28 or 30 days after birth? Is that right? Jack? 

Technically it's 28. Based upon the definition of perinatal. Here's what, here's what happened when the bill was put forward to the judiciary committee, which it passed. You gotta remember, California has a super majority, uh, of Democrats. The Democrats have ruled this state. And to be honest with you, even when Arnold Schwart nigger was our governor, he was really a Republican. He was a Democrat with the R in the mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> back of his name. So let's remember that when they crafted this bill, we have spies up in Sacramento and, and they tipped us off immediately to it. And so we made it public and Buffy wick amended the bill. And when she amended it, ADF said it was a genius brilliant amendment, because what she did was she made the bill even more vague to avoid the stigma of what we were calling it. 

And that was the infanticide bill, which is exactly what it is. She countered and said, this is not infanticide. That how horrible, how could you accuse me of this? So she wrote the word perinatal, perinatal covers a baby that is born dead, still birth all the way out to a baby that might die from SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. Mm-hmm <affirmative> listen or any other reason, watch this. Here's where we get into the weeds out to 28 days. Perinatal death is the term that she's using. But interestingly enough, in the law, it says any child born and dies within 28 days, that death cannot be investigated by law enforcement because of their prejudice to blame the mother that it's unfair, it would be unjust. So the bill not only legalizes the murdering of a child born into this world, but it ties the hands of law enforcement. You say, Jack, you're making it up. If I'm making it up, why did I spend three hours on the phone yesterday on Thursday, uh, with the California, uh, law enforcement officers association, as they are forming a group to testify against this bill, because they understand Frank that the bill reads that they could be held liable. If the, the woman in any way, shape or form feels that she's being accused, that she's being discriminated against or, uh, or, or her life is being 

Cashed in dispersion on this death. 

So a woman can act, actually basically kill her baby in the first 28 days. And if anybody investigates her, they could be liable. They could be persecuted or prosecuted. I should say, this is going on in California. Ladies, gentlemen, it's coming to your state. If you do not do something now, who knows what's gonna happen? 

Hey, I have something for you. It's compact, but it's powerful. And it packs a punch. It's a booklet that we've put out called countdown, all eyes on God's ultimate end game. But what does that mean in light of what's going on in the world around us? I have never seen the pieces come in together so well. And so aligned according to Bible prophecy, like we see right now in these end times, are we living in the last days? What should we be looking for? I asked myself these questions and looking only to the word of God, I found the answers true answers. According to the scriptures countdown, all lies on God's ultimate endgame is a pocket book I wrote, and I want you to have it. And this is available for a gift of any amount. Simply go to Jack All the information is right there on how you can obtain a copy for yourself, hot off the press, as it were You can order it. Now, 

The state of California is about to pass a bill that would allow the murder of infants up to 28 days old. There's no way of getting around this friends. This is what's going on. My question is other than Jack Hibbs and a few other pastors who are in Sacramento the other day to fight this, where are the pastors in California? Where are the pastors in the neighboring states? Where's your pastor on this? Are it is Jack? Why aren't more pastors concerned and vocal about the actual killing of infants, 

Man. Frank, I've been asking a question for a long time. We've been standing up against darkness in the political realm for a long time. You know, I, I don't know how to answer that because, uh, we saw the precursor or I should say the sh the sifting during COVID, where were the pastors during COVID? Where were the pastors? When Gavin Newsom said you will not open your church and you will not sing as a group in worship. That, to me, that was like, uh, those, those are fighting words. Uh mm-hmm <affirmative> when I understand my Bible, uh, we know what this governor and his party's all about. And yet now we've reached a point where in a post COVID world posts shut down, post mass, post vaccine, all this kind of stuff. Uh, no, it seems as though, and I, and I wanna believe it's not true, but it, it seems like there's so few that are willing to stand. 

I am hoping Frank that through your program and others, these guys hear about it and get engaged. If they don't Frank, then I believe based upon script sure. That we're living in the last days. Good. Evil, good is called evil. Evil is called good mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that apathy would prevail in the church in the last days. And that, that there would be pastors that are idle shepherds. They get a check, they have a pension, they show up on Sunday and then they golf, or they go surfing and that's about it. They don't get involved. Frank in politics, we preach the gospel. That's all I hear when I challenge these guys, we just preach the gospel and Frank, that's the problem. That's 

The let's talk, let, yeah, let's talk about that, Jack, because there are objections that people will bring up. Uh, you know, if start getting too political Jack, you're gonna turn people off to the gospel. What do you say to that? 

Yeah, I understand that you do not want to get political, uh, for political sake. And I always try to make that a point. I always go to this, Frank, God, God invented marriage. God invented the church and God invented government. What we're dealing with in California is not government. We're dealing with politics that has invaded the sanctity of God-given authority. Romans 13 says that those who are in power have been granted the power by the odd to do good. But when that power decides to do evil with that good, the church is to step in and to say, it's better for us to obey God, rather than man. I believe without being political, Frank, the church should hold our elected officials in this Republic accountable. And so that's what we're doing. We are fighting for righteous. That's my comeback. I would say to the pastor, pastor, please explain to me after you're done teaching and you turn your people loose, have you taught them to go out on Monday morning and do righteousness? 

What does that mean? What does that look like? What is, what does it mean when the scripture says that the church went out and they went all about doing good and that's what we need to challenge pastors about. It's not just them delivering a message on Sunday and looking cool on Facebook or YouTube. It's equipping their people to go and be disciples. So yes, we preach the gospel and Frank, here's the deal. Our, you know, us, we've not changed one bit. Mm-hmm <affirmative> over the decades. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but we had 19,000 people show up last Sunday. Mm. 

And, and, and that's probably double what it was prior to COVID. Oh, because when COVID hit Jack, after a couple of months, I think pastors did the right thing. Initially. We didn't know if this was Ebola. Right. We didn't know. Okay. No, let's 10 days to, to flatten the curve. We're with you. Okay. But after about two months of that, Jack, you said, I don't care what the governor says. We're supposed to meet together. You opened up. And I remember, I think I was there maybe six, eight months after you did that. Jack and people actually came up to me at the book table and said, I drove three hours to be here because my, my church isn't open this church is the only one open. And, and you've doubled or tripled since then. And you're going through the Bible with people who haven't heard the Bible before. So you're, you're preaching Romans on set on Sunday morning. He on Wednesday night and the response has been overwhelming. 

We've been packed out. And these people, for example, who have been churched have, now they have such a hunger for the word of God, because a reality slapped him in the face and they found out they didn't have a foundation. That five steps to a happy day is not gonna get you through a, a crisis. So I, you know, me, I told you this privately that I D I deliberately stopped, uh, where we were at. And I said, look, everybody, I'm gonna go to Romans. And I'm gonna go to Hebrews the new Testament, uh, sh uh, you know, holes of, uh, the Magna Carta of new Testament doctrine Uhhuh, just to shake the tree so that we didn't have any looking, lose hanging around. Uh, because I believe time is short. They needed to hear the truth. And if people left that's up, that's between them and God. But the exact opposite happened, Frank, you know, that people began flocking to find out what does the Bible really say? And yeah, I mean, for crying out loud, Wednesday nights, you know, Wednesday nights, we're pushing, uh, 25, 2700 people in the room on, on Wednesday nights. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> because people are hungry for truth. 

You know, our mutual friend, Tony Perkins has said this, that if you, as a pastor, begin to preach to the issues of the day as they come up in the scriptures, or even if you do a topical sermon and you don't shy away from the truth, whether it's political or not, you just get out there and say, this is the truth. You don't like it. Sorry, I'm just a messenger, right? This is from God. Okay. If you do that, you are gonna lose some people, but guess what? You're gonna gain a lot more. And those people are gonna be truly devoted disciples of Jesus and Jack. Your church is a testimony to that you've doubled in the past years, because you're not backing down one of these pastors. And by the way, we don't do it to get big crowds. Quite obviously we do it because it's the truth. And so, so few people are preaching the truth. Jack, encourage the pastors listening right now, encourage the people in the pews that they need to demand truth, regardless of whether it touches on politics or not, 

I'll encourage them the way I encourage myself. You know, David said, I believe in Psalm 43, it's almost as though he looked down his robe, remember, and he said, why art th cast down, oh my soul. Mm-hmm <affirmative> hope thou in God, mm-hmm, <affirmative> <affirmative> for, he is our strength. And that's, that's what I would say to the pastors that are watching right now is this challenge. Do you believe that Jesus meant what he said? When he said my sheep hear my voice, they follow me. We are ordered to give them the flock or the, the world, the, the voice of Jesus. How do we do that? The word of God, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. If we do that, then God's people, the holy spirit will make sure that his people hear that word and they'll come to the truth. The last thing you want at this time of church history is a church full of people who really don't know what they, or why they believe it. 

But I feel good when I go to church, it makes me feel good. Mm-hmm <affirmative> listen. We are called to make disciples. And all we are responsible to do is to disciple them in the word of God, not in what's hip, not in what's cool. And when you tell them that, when you go out next Sunday and say, I am here to make you, uh, get closer to Jesus Christ by presenting the unadulterated word of God. And I trust this morning, family of God, that the holy spirit takes these words and, and staples them to your soul. That's why I'm here. If you don't want this, remove me as a pastor or don't come back, but let's stand and let's it op let's open our Bibles now mm-hmm 

<affirmative> while you do that, so well, and by the way, folks, if you don't know, the Jack Hibbs podcast is brand new, it's shot, right? To the top of the charts, even on the secular charts, Jack you, in fact, for a while, you just had a two minute trailer and it was outpacing just about every other podcast people are going. Yeah, we want the, we wanna hear more from this guy. He's just preaching the truth. How do we get more of this, in fact, in the context of the anti-Christ, but you said this, you said that if we don't have Christ in our lives, we're suckers for being deceived. Unpack that further. Unpack that. 

Yeah. It's funny, you know, right. A right beyond, uh, my, my laptop here, I'm looking outside and believe it or not at ran California last night and in my backyard on the 


Yeah, it's a miracle, 

Huh? That's right. There's 

There's little divots in the patio. Little low spots and water has congregated there. Okay. And so, uh, where there's a void or where there's a low spot, the will congregate to it. So think about that. As, as a believer, that spot looked blank until it rained a Believer's life is filled with the ownership of the holy spirit. That void has been filled by the possession of Christ. He owns us a nonbeliever. Doesn't have that. They are open to whatever comes along. Something's gonna fill that void, Frank. And if it's not the holy spirit, you are now subject to the deception, the lies and the trickery of the evil one. The Bible's very clear about this. And so, uh, the greatest way to ward off deception is of course, to have the holy spirit, as a believer in you, Paul talked to the Corinthians about this, that God will not share the temple of the holy spirit, your body, your life with bills above, with Satan. And so you're either with the ownership of God or you're not. And if you're not, there's a sign hanging on you spiritually saying vacant or vacancy, and that's a terrifying place to live. 

Yeah. You said, when you're talking about this, that we're open to all sorts of fads. I mean, look, this, this whole sexual movements of fad Jack, I mean transgenderism. And there are people that obviously struggle with gender dysphoria. We're not minimizing them, but when you have vast swaths of the population making it seem like everybody has this and that everybody, even young children, the Biden administration came out a couple of weeks ago and said, children, as early as three to five, five years old, if they think they're the opposite sex, you as a parent need to affirm them. And Jack, they went on to even say this, that the government may come in and take that child from you. If you don't, this is a fad. And yet there are people being actually deceived by it. And I, I, if, if, if you're a Christian, you have a defense against this. You 

Yeah, Frank, I'm gonna share something. I gotta be careful. So I, I don't get sued. But, um, there was a science camp. Mm-hmm <affirmative> for public and private schools and you just sign up and your kid goes up there for three days, by the way, listen to this. This is a, this is a tip off, it's a science camp. Um, but what they said was we're talking of third, fourth, and fifth graders going up. And for three days, parents are not allowed to communicate with their kids. Okay. Number one, warning. Second thing was this, that when the kids came back from the camp, they all had questions to their parents about what is gender identity and what is, uh, L B GT Q. This was a science camp. And they actually got in trouble last year with another school out of the Los Angeles school district, because they wound up kids wound up coming and telling this public school that they attend, that they were being indoctrinated regarding the lb G T Q uh, position point is this. 

We have got to be extremely careful and wise, and we need to watch out and be directly involved in what our kids are. Learning point though, Frank, to your point is no kid thinks this up on their own. This stuff is embedded. It's planted in them. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, they, they, they deliberately drop verbiage that causes a kid to be cured. For example, in one of our high schools, the que this is high school. Now, one of the questions was asked by a teacher. Have you ever thought about what it would be like almost taking cues from Katie Perry's song? I kissed a girl and I liked it. Have you ever thought about what it be like if you were a girl to kiss a girl? Well, then you may have lesbian tendencies. 

This is in school. They, they, 

Yeah. They dropped it into the high schoolers kids. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I, I, I promise you, whoever's watching this right now. It's happening to your kid, guaranteed. And don't say that you sent your kid to a Christian school, so it's not happening. Watch out. 

I know a lot of pastors and Christians are worried about getting involved in politics. We talked about a little all already, but I, I wanna ask people right now. If you're not driving to take out your iPhone or your droid, I want you to text, or I want you to put in your, your, uh, search engine, just a, a few words. Korea, satellite night, Korea, satellite night. When, when you see that image come up, you're gonna see a satellite picture of the Korean peninsula. You're gonna see South Korea full of you're gonna see North Korea, dark, and the answer for why there's a difference between south and North Korea is one thing it's politics. And let me ask you this. What country would you rather live in? South Korea or North Korea? You'd rather live in South Korea. Why? Cuz they have political freedom. If you wanna keep your political freedom, if you wanna keep your ability to preach and teach and live the gospel, you better be involved on these moral issues because the government can take that stuff away from you. If you're not engaged and Jack you're engaged now, what kind of pushback do you get by being engaged? Jack? What do people say to you? Do you, do you, do you have people walking out? Do you have people coming after you? What happens when you get this? 

You want, yeah. Frank, you want, you might wanna edit my answer. Uh, and it, my answer is this. The flock is, is swarming to the church and online, my greatest opposition hands down is not even from the, the leftist, uh, and the row Democrats of California. Believe it or not. I am constantly criticized by pastors. And by, uh, those in church leadership of other ministries that are simply attacking with this, with this, uh, narrative politics is evil and you are bringing it into the church. You are Def defining your people. You are wasting your time. And here's the funny thing, Frank, they go through all of this stuff, but their churches haven't doubled or tripled in size. They didn't baptize 3000, 114 people in a couple of months. They are not dealing with 19,000 people showing up on a, on a Sunday for service. What does that tell them that we can preach the gospel and then go out and be salt and light that's should be telling them. 

But my number one opposition are those of the religious order of those, of the religious, uh, hierarchy of the day, trying everything Frank, to sit on the lid and keep status quo. And you can see the lid boiling off. They can't contain it. He are walking to the truth. And I tell you what pastor you want your church to grow? Listen, that's not a good request. You want your church to grow because your church is rooted and grounded on truth, not numbers. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you've gotta be willing to empty your church out by presenting truth and let God build it. And, and he will build it. And then you can have the peace and confidence that it's his church. He bought it. He he'll empower it. You just do your job and he'll take care of the rest. You don't have to worry about money. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you have to worry about board members. You don't have to worry about attendance. 

And if it turns out you're Jeremiah, stand alone, preaching the truth. Oh, well, that's what you're doing. Oh, well, you know, Jack, I don't think people realized that Jesus was involved in politics because who are the politicians of his day, the Pharisees, they were on the San Hedron. They were part of the political order. And here's what Jesus says to them. And this is easy to remember friends. It's Matthew 23, 23. What does Jesus say to the politicians of this day? He says, what do you teachers of the law in Pharisees hypocrites, you give a 10th of your spices, mint di and Kuman, but you've neglected. The more important matters of the law, justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former. You blind guides, you straight out a Napa swallow, a camel. You see what he's saying? He's saying, he's saying to the politicians, you've been majoring in the minors. Jack. We been telling people to wear masks for two years, and yet we won't tell them. Not only don't kill your babies in the womb. Now we're telling 'em it's okay to kill them out of the womb, Jack, what's going on. It's crazy. 

Frank Frank, add to that, that in Southern California, they were churches that had vaccination sites on campus. Okay. What in the world's on? It was the separation of church and state <laugh> well, wait a minute. Uh, why are you acting like the state then? And by the way, isn't it funny that when the watch this, that we are to call to protect life, our God is all about life. Jesus says, I've come to give life and that more abundantly mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. That's our, that's our thing. Marriage. That's ours. The defense of the unborn we're commanded. That's ours. Mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. The government comes along and says, we're taking that flag, that banner from you, and we're gonna plant it on our hill and you'll sit down and you'll shut up and you'll say nothing about it. And pastors go like this for fear of what I do not know. 

Uh, but imagine if a church stood up and said, excuse me, we're taking the flag back of the definition of marriage and life that belongs in the Bible. You've politicized it when it's actual theological mandate from God almighty. And we're coming to you Sacramento and taking back the definition of marriage or the sanctity of life, because that is an area that belongs to the sovereign hands of God. Yes, someone's gonna win the worldview debate. It is going to be the people that have got the microphone in your state capital or in your city, or it's going to be like it was in the early days. And the colonial pulpits of America, the epicenter of cultural truth were the, were the pulpits of colonial America. The black Rouge regimen of our founding fathers were not the ones that were pub were the politicians. Sam Adams said that it was the pastors that taught on Liberty and freedom and responsibility to God. That's where our founding fathers got it from. 

Well, unfortunately, people don't know history, Jack, as you know, they don't know that. Look, we're not trying to legislate religion. We're trying to legislate morality. And everybody's trying to legislate morality. Obviously, California now thinks it's gonna be moral all to be able not to murder just babies in the womb, but outta the womb up to 28 days after they're born ladies and gentlemen. And if you can't stand up against that, what can you stand up against? I mean, what if you're not gonna speak up against the actual murder of children? What are you gonna speak up against? Not, 

Yeah, there's some good news, everybody. If good news, if you decide to get involved. Uh, and so here's where we're at. It passed judiciary committee voting straight down party lines. All Democrats voted to kill the baby. All Republicans voted to save the baby. Then it went to the health committee and all Democrats voted to kill all the Republicans voted to save. Now it goes to appropriations where there is no public hearing, but it moves then to the Senate and here in the state of California. So we've got several attempts to rally to make calls, to make a difference. I am pleading. I am begging every pastor in California, every Catholic priest. Listen, if you are an Imam at a ma, if you are a rabbi at a synagogue, in fact, Frank, how about this? If you were like that young woman who went to the microphone, uh, as I was testifying last week, she came up and she said, my name's Susie Q I'm from San Francisco. 

I'm a Democrat, I'm an atheist. And I'm against this wicked bill. And she walked out and got a standing ovation. All we need everyone. Who's got a conscience and some form of a backbone to go to real, real and find out how you can get involved. But we need every single one of you to make some noise, call your assembly member in your area. You've got one in California and tell them vote. No, an AB 22, 23. I'm watching how you vote. And, and I will see to it that I'll make your vote public. When you say it that way, it sends chills to their bones. And why are we to do it? Frank, very obscure verse who in the world studies this second Corinthians 10, six, nobody even knows about it. Second Corinthians 10 verse six, Paul there says by our obedience Christ, we punish disobedience in this world. Mm that's. How we do it. Living righteously 

And the verse right before that, he says we demolish arguments and take every thought captive to Christ. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed, if we're not gonna stand for these for unborn people who will now, here's one thing I think we need to start asking these people who are for this bill, Jack, how does a dead baby improve anything? Cause that's really what they want. They want dead babies. How does a dead baby improve anything? How does it solve a problem? I, I don't get it. I don't, I don't, I don't get where these people are coming from. Why would they, why would they think this Jack, 

The people who testified for the bill. Yeah. To have it approved on, on Tuesday, a C L U mm-hmm <affirmative> and planned parenthood. 


They, they, they said, so they announced their name, who they were with and how they wanted the assembly to vote. There is big business on the, on the worldly side. There's big business and dead bay. Mm. Okay. Second thing is, it's demonic on the spiritual side. This is none other. And I'm wondering if you guys all believe your Bible, this is none other than the same demonic powers that, that you read about in your old Testament scriptures of, of human sacrifice. These are the same demons living out, manipulating people. They have found a home in the California Democrat party and they've got them almost like CS Lewis, Frank CS Lewis' book, you know? Well, screw tape letters. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's like, we're living it out here right now. 


It's crazy. So you, you, you can't take it out on the person that you're debating personally, but what you are doing spiritually is behind them to the power. That's manipulating them. I view that because I'm a believer, but we must stand. And after we've stood, the Bible says, stand there for right. We are to be guarded with all of the armament of the believer in Ephesians chapter six. And we've gotta do it. I believe Frank, I believe God is testing. Not only the wicked. I believe God is testing his church to see who is, who is of the church. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> who is for real, who will stand. And by the way, Frank, we've gotta qualify in the last days doing we not don't. We have to qualify for being those who will be persecuted in the last days. Didn't Jesus promise us that in the last days, people are gonna rise up against us and say all man of evil against us and hate us because we love him. You gotta ask yourself this question. Are you all about being loved by everybody mm-hmm <affirmative> or are all about being loved by God and loved by his people, but hated by Satan and hated by those who worship him. 

That's a question we all need to ask ourselves. Or Jesus at one point might say away from me, I never knew you because you were more concerned about yourself than you were about me. You were more concerned about being liked rather than loved by me. Look, Jesus loves everybody infinitely, cuz he's an infinite being. But a lot of people turn away that love Jack for the love of other people, for the love of the culture, right? That's what they do. They, they turn it away. That's their idol. You know, I'm reminded you brought up CS Lewis, um, CS Lewis in his book, abolition of man talks about when good things are swell into madness and isolation. Now sex is a good thing. But when you make that, the ultimate thing, you swell it to madness and isolation to the point that you're willing to sacrifice children. So you can feel better about the illicit sex you've engaged in. That's where we are, that that we're putting sex at the very top of our priority list. And that good thing is now swollen to madness in isolation to the point that we're actually willing to kill children so we can justify what we want to do sexually Jack, we, we need to speak out against this, 

Frank you so well, I don't remember when it was because we've had, had the privilege of having you at church, um, many times, but you one time preached and said that America's new. God is sex. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and you are so right. And you're even more right now. And you're gonna be even more right tomorrow because you're exactly true on this thing. And, and here's the deal, uh, don't you believe in a woman's right to choice, uh, to choose. Of course I do. Mm-hmm <affirmative> she chose to have sex mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And I'm sorry, I'm not talking as a pastor. I'm talking as a biologist. Okay. 

We're designed in such a way that when two come together, living sperm, collides with living egg and you've got life it's called biology. It happens probably a thousand times a day. The point is this, you can't undo that. Well, I believe in a woman's right to choose. No. What you're saying is you believe in a woman's right to murder the child either in mm-hmm <affirmative> or out of the womb. Cause she made a decision earlier that she frankly knew what could happen. And so did he, but now they're trying to put their toothpaste back in the tube mm-hmm <affirmative> and that ain't gonna happen. 

You're pleading with pastors to get involved and to preach on these things. And for some reason, I don't know what they're afraid of. They're afraid of losing money. They're afraid of losing their staff. They're afraid of losing the congregation. Tell them Jack, why your job is to speak the truth regardless of the consequences. 

Yeah. Yeah. Let's be honest. Uh, those of us who handled the word of God, James tells us we're gonna be judged with the stricter judgment. Mm-hmm <affirmative> when we appear for the Lord. In other words, too much has been given to us and too much shall be required of us. That's right. And so what I would say to all the pastors is you need to, you need to go, uh, fast, take a drive into the desert, climb a mountain, take a robo out to sea, get along. You know, you asked how do I do Romans and Hebrews, uh, and reach messages during the week I gotta get alone. I spend, I have to spend a lot of time alone. Pastor, get alone, listen to what God is saying. Don't let Facebook or Instagram or Twitter shape what you're gonna say next. If you can't handle those things, get off of them and get into the word of God. It is my desire for you. And I know Frank shares this, ingest the word of God until it's burning in your soul so much that when you get into the pulpit on Sunday, nobody can stop you. You're on fire. You've got to deliver what he gave you. Not what you downloaded, not what you read in the book. It's okay to read commentaries right after God is giving you your sermon. Mm-hmm <affirmative> then read the commentaries, get it from him. Be on fire. God will anoint and bless you. And your congregation will be transformed. 

Don't let the noise of the world drown out the word of God. Don't let the noise of the world drown out the word of God. There's a lot of noise out there and you've gotta Pierce through that noise with the word of God and with truth. And if you're only willing to speak on what the world tells you, you can speak on, then you're not truly being prophetic in. I'm not talking about telling the future. I'm talking about actually speaking the truth to your congregation. Now, Jackie do that. So well, thanks so much for leading your congregation brother, 

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