His Sovereignty Is Our Sanity

00:00 - Speaker 1
Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs Podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture.

00:09 - Speaker 2
Well, everybody, welcome to this podcast, and you are going to be blown away. We have a treasure with us today. He's not easy to get. I think you're going to be impressed, but we're going to sit down and talk to one of the living great, great leaders in the church today, a man who will not compromise, a man who loves the lost and a man who encourages the church. You're going to find out who in just a minute, so stay tuned as we dive into this episode of the Jack Hibbs Podcast.

00:41 - Speaker 1
You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to https://jackhibbs.com/podcast Today. If this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five-star ratings. To us that's like saying amen or yes. Then that rating will encourage others to listen Now open your hearts to what God's Word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs.

01:10 - Speaker 2
Hey everybody, welcome to the Jack Hibbs Podcast. We are glad that you are with us, as usual, listen. Please hit the subscribe button and make sure that you stay up on all that's going. In fact, make sure you stay tuned as things in the Middle East begin to heat up. But listen, today we have a very, very special podcast and I know I sound like a broken record because I say that every time and we are honored, we're blessed to have such great guests that we do. But today we have with us today not only a prolific author. I mean his books. They just fly off the shelf and they should because of the content and the messaging.

01:52
When this man speaks, people listen, and rightfully so. I am talking today about having with us right now Pastor Dr Erwin Lutzer, now Pastor Dr Erwin Lutzer, and Erwin Lutzer is a legend to those of us who occupy a pulpit, or if you attend any theological seminary at all, or if you have been one who has a great appetite for Bible teaching, go to YouTube or go to erwinlutzercom. I would imagine I'm making that up right now. I would think that's what he has and listen to him deep, solid. You never listen.

02:29
This is so rare for me to be able to say you never have to be worried about what Dr Lutzer is going to teach on. It is safe, conservative, biblically based theology, and I'm so grateful for his impact upon my life over the years. So, dr Lutzer, it's awesome to have you on the podcast and I hope we have some fun today, and part of the fun for me is promoting this remarkable book that you've just authored, and I can't wait to get into it. But why don't you tell the audience a little bit about who you are?

03:01 - Speaker 3
Well, thank you so much for your wonderful introduction. Jack and you and I have known each other distantly. It's wonderful to be on your podcast. My lovely wife Rebecca and I have been married for 55 years, jack. The other day she said to some of our friends the first 50 have been the most difficult, but God has graciously blessed us. We have three children, we have eight grandchildren and you know Jack, so that your audience might get to know me a little better, I was actually born on a farm in Saskatchewan, canada, five miles from a town of 75 people, and I mentioned that only to give God glory, because God is the one who took me from the farm and, through his divine providence, gave me the opportunities to do the things that I've been able to do, including, as you mentioned, be pastor of Moody Church in Chicago for 36 years and write books.

04:07
All that to the glory of God. And I always say to people if you're blessed as a result of something that I have said or something that you have read that I've written, make sure that the glory goes to God, because I attribute to him every opportunity I've had. And while I'm on the topic, I just want to say this that I have frequently watched you, jack, and it's so wonderful to hear you preach the word. You know you go out there a little farther if I might put it that way than some other pastors do, but nonetheless you always get back to the scriptures, you always get back to the gospel, because you and I know that that is the great hope for America in the midst of all of the polarization that I'm sure we can talk about on this podcast. The fact is that what people really need is the gospel and I appreciate so much the opportunity and, while I'm on the topic, I really do appreciate the opportunity to speak at your church.

05:13
Yes, the first Sunday after our election, that's right. I'm going to just say right off the top that the topic I'm going to speak on is the laughter of God, based on Psalm 2, where it says you know, the heathen rage the people. They rebel against God. God sits in the heavens and laughs. So, no matter who gets elected, it's going to be an opportunity for us to talk about the sovereignty of God and I'll be mentioning that his sovereignty is really our sanity. So it's going to be a great time. I look forward to it.

05:50 - Speaker 2
Wow, first of all, just that was enough right there to get me excited about it, and I'm delighted that people are hearing the invite to view that in advance. And what a great. And that should always be the perspective that God is sovereign regarding what happens. We may do our best, but the bottom line as you and I even sit here today, with Israel and all that's happening there that God is sovereign, his word will be fulfilled, and I am just delighted you are, and so listen, thank you for those kind words. I let's, let's, dive in, if you would. I want people to buy your book, I want everybody to buy your book. And friends, listen, those of you you're probably thinking well, of course Jack's going to say that no, no, no, you don't understand. I am not going to have someone come onto this podcast that is going to peddle something, just to peddle something. This is not peddling anything.

06:48
The book that Dr Lutzer has written is not only in lockstep with what he has written and the style that he's written before, but this grabs you, as his books do. But the eclipse of God listen to the subtitle everybody. Our nation's disastrous search for a more inclusive deity and what we must do about it and, dr Lutzer, the titles to the chapters preach themselves. I mean, it's incredibly powerful. What brought the book about? What gave this its fuel?

07:26 - Speaker 3
Well, you know, when you think of an eclipse, all of us know that an eclipse of the sun means that the moon comes between the earth and the sun. It doesn't affect the sun, it only really affects the earth, because the sun, of course, is blocked by the moon. And I argue that the moon of secularism has blocked the face of God. And this, of course, is exactly what also happened to Israel. In chapter 59, god says you know, my arm is not short, that I cannot help you. I can forgive you, but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and I have hidden my face from you.

08:09
So what I point out in the book is this that you know, jack, I want to tell you this Americans don't mind saying that they believe in God, just as long as they can choose the God in which they believe, and oftentimes, as I point out in the book, their own consciousness becomes God. And then I have to tell you something else that motivated me. A number of years ago in the Economist, there was an article that said God is becoming more liberal, he's beginning to approve of same-sex marriage, he is becoming as liberal as we are. And then it says this, and, by the way, the online version was entitled Nearer my God to Me and.

08:54 - Speaker 1
I have a chapter entitled.

08:56 - Speaker 3
Nearer my God to Me. But it also said this nobody believes in the smitey almighty, the almighty of the Old Testament who smote the Egyptians. The almighty who smote Sodom and Gomorrah. So I have a chapter, as you well know, on the smitey almighty where I deal with the killing of the Canaanites, the flood, the stoning of people in the Old Testament, and then one of the longest chapters is God more tolerant than he used to be? One of the longest chapters is God more tolerant than he used to be? After all, we don't do those things today.

09:29
So how do we navigate the difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament? And of course, I show that he has not changed at all, and not only that. In the New Testament he holds us much more accountable for our sins because we have more light. You know, I know you have other questions to ask, but I have to say this that in the book of Hebrews it really says this and I'm paraphrasing with two or three witnesses, and they were stoned to death of how much greater punishment will there come to those who trample underfoot the blood of the Son of God and consider the blood of the Son of God unholy.

10:16
This is terrifying, and when you read the New Testament, when you read the book of Revelation, you discover that God is judging the world in terrifying ways, worse, in ways that are much more terrifying than in the Old Testament. So we have to the burden of the book, and then the rest of it shows how God is necessary for law and truth and all the other things. But the burden of the book is this we have to get back to the God of the Bible and not just the God of popular culture, because we have all kinds of gods in today's world and people want to believe in their own version of God and it's really disastrous for them, because the God of the Bible is the true God and we have to get back to him and not the gods that people want to believe in and we were both able to answer that the God that some would say was of the Old Testament is now this new, tolerant God, this very cool Jesus, who is somehow a social media type star Jesus.

11:39 - Speaker 2
Well, people are going to have a big shock because when we read the Old Testament account of God dealing with sin and dealing with unrighteousness, you hit the nail on the head. The book of Revelation shows that in its maximum throttle, because of all of this, it's the culmination of sin. It's like when the Lord said the sins of the Amorites has not yet reached its point, meaning that there's a point where sin has reached a level where God will unleash it all. You look at the book of Revelation and I often tell this to my Jewish friends. They don't want to read the New Testament and I ask them will you at least start this way Read Genesis to Malachi. They barely read that. But after Malachi, will you read the book of Revelation? And if they do, they get it.

12:28
They see the connection where today the modern Christian would say oh, no, no, no, we like the God of the New Testament. He's so much more softer and tolerant, as you say, and he's so much easygoing man. I don't know what Bible you're reading, but that's not the guy I mean. The word tells us that we should tremble, in fact, at his word, and you referenced the book of Hebrews, if I remember right, if the law and if Moses and what was given was holy and just and it warranted such a punishment because wickedness must be punished or else God's unjust and he is just so it will be punished that to reject Christ and his sacrifice you mentioned the word correctly about trampling under the foot.

13:16
For someone to get into hell, if you think about it, they've got to walk over, step over, as it were, the body of Christ, the sacrifice of Christ, the work of Christ. I would argue that it's kind of hard to get there, even though a lot of people are going to a Christless eternity. You've got to work hard every day, telling yourself he's not real, I'm not a sinner, I don't need the cross. And to me it's remarkable because, like you said, so, much light has been given and to whom much is given, much is required. And truly Romans is correct, of course, where Paul says we are without excuse. Just remarkable.

13:56 - Speaker 3
Absolutely. And you know what I also do in the book is. You might know I help people to understand where the darkness came from. You might know I help people to understand where the darkness came from because Nietzsche proclaimed the death of God in the year 1900. And I point out that he says we have grave diggers who have buried God. And I reference Karl Marx, whom he would have known about Darwin, who said that the baboon is our grandfather. We came up through the animal world. That has huge implications. It means that we have no arguments against abortion, no argument against infanticide, because afteriver and says sexuality is the highest form of happiness. So he didn't want any laws regarding sexuality. I show how this is leading, actually in our society, to pedophilia.

14:55
Oh, absolutely, to get to Jesus that you were referencing. You know the Jesus of the New Testament, if I might humbly say, this is not the woke Jesus that we see on television where it says he gets us. Now, of course he gets us and I think that the people who support that probably mean very, very well. But how do you like this, jack? Revelation chapter seven. Revelation chapter 7. People hid themselves in the dens and in the mountains and in the rocks and said unto. The mountains and rocks fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. We're talking about a Jesus here who's a Savior, who offers himself to everybody and we certainly are emphasizing that today. He offers himself to everybody. But when you stop to think of it, we're talking about a Jesus who is going to come as judge, and there are people praying that they will be spared from the wrath of the Lamb. And in the last chapter of my book, which I mentioned, getting back to the God of wrath and grace, not the God of unconditional love I emphasize the fact that the reason that we urge people to believe on Christ is that they might be saved from the wrath to come. And one of the things I like to do, jack and I know that you do this too is to explain to people why Jesus is the only one who qualifies to be a Savior. Nobody else does. There isn't a teacher.

16:37
You know, many years ago there was a Parliament of World Religions in Chicago. I went to all the booths looking for a savior, a sinless savior. I went to the Hindus, I went to the Muslims, I went to those who followed other religions and I said I'm a sinner, I'm looking for a sinless savior to save me. Jack, not a one of them had that. They said well, you know, buddha told us to live according to this path, and this path is good. But could Buddha forgive sins? No, only Jesus can.

17:12
So what you and I need to do is to get back not only to the biblical God as he is revealed, but also the biblical Jesus. Just think of this. It's coming to mind even as I'm speaking. Jesus is going to come to earth in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord, jesus Christ, who will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his power. So this is the Jesus of the New Testament.

17:48
So what I've tried to do in the book that we're talking about, the Eclipse of God, is to help people to wake up and to see reality, the reality as revealed in the scriptures. Here's what we have done with God as a nation we have domesticated him. We have brought him down to become a sin-friendly God. We have molded him in our own image, and so he's the God that everybody can like. He's not the God of wrath, he's not the God of redemption.

18:21
People imagine this, okay, those who say and I discuss this in the book those who say, well, I'm into spirituality, but I don't believe anything specific. What are you saying? You are saying you come to a God that is in your consciousness, you call him God and really it's a God of your own making, the God of the Bible. You just don't come to him without a mediator and without a sacrifice. You need Christ. So our society has left the God of the Bible and we've come up with a God that everybody can live with, a God that is very, very sin-friendly. And what I attempt to do. And in the rest of the book I show that God is necessary for truth and for law and for things such as morality. In fact, jack, it comes to mind, and I don't want to monopolize the conversation here- no, keep going, by all means please.

19:20
But in the chapter on truth I try to help parents to understand why it is that when they send their kids to university, they say back. They say our kids come back and they think differently than we do. Yes, they sure do. And the reason is there was a time in America that would have been before the time when men could have babies. A time in America that would have been before the time when men could have babies. There was a time in America when we believed that truth existed outside of ourselves. It was a search that was objective. We might argue as to whether or not we got there or how we got there, but today truth is internalized. So it's how I feel. So I don't feel that this is right. I don't feel that this is just. I feel that compassion should motivate our ethic, and so we should be compassionate toward, say, same-sex marriage or whatever. And people don't realize that compassion and love can be evil. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, they didn't stop loving. They just started to love the wrong things Lovers of pleasure, lovers of money, lovers of self. So when we hear love is love, that can be very deceitful. Love rejoices in the truth. The Bible says. So I tease out what the whole implications are when the locus of truth is moved from something that is objective outside of us and it becomes within us. And then I point out five characteristics of biblical truth. I find this fascinating and everybody will remember the story.

21:11
Jesus is standing before Pilate and Jesus says for this cause, I came into the world for this cause, I was born for this cause. I came into the world to bear witness to the truth. Jesus didn't say I came to make people feel better even though we thank God that he does. And Pilate says what is truth? And then Pilate leaves and he goes out and talks to the mob and he doesn't wait for the answer. Here's the thing Pilate learned that you can kill a man, but you can't kill truth. And truth has to come from God. All lies come from Satan, all truth comes from God.

21:57
There was a philosopher by the name of Augustine who lived in the three and four hundreds and he showed that if you believe that two plus two is equal to four, you really have to believe in God. Now that gets quite philosophical. But then I show this and here's my plea to the people who are listening. It says in Proverbs, chapter 23, verse 23,. Buy the truth and sell it not.

22:24
And so if there's somebody out there trying to wonder whether or not they can go along with a culture, I want to ask them a question. For those who are Christians, let me begin there. You've bought the truth. At what price are you willing to sell it? I had a businessman text me some time ago and he said can I sign this?

22:46
And without violating my conscience? It was whether or not he was comfortable with multiple pronouns. Well, I point out in the book that if your son is born Bert and wants to be called Betty, you can call him Betty, because names aren't gendered, but if Bert wants to be called a she, if you're authentic, you have to explain. I'm sorry, I can't do that. I can't violate my conscience by telling you that you are something that I deeply believe. You aren't. So these are the kinds of issues that we are facing today.

23:30
We are facing today, and the question is whether or not we're willing to get back to biblical truth or the truth of popular culture, which says oh, I have my truth and you have your truth, which is, of course, absurdity. You know, in another book I've written, I point out that in one of our universities they say if you believe that mathematics has only one answer, you're racist. Okay, you go to the bank and you say, yeah, I have $1,000. And they say, well, that's your truth. Our truth is you only have 500. So here's the point.

24:05
We're living in a day when insanity has to be accepted and I point that out in that chapter how people today are actually believing contradictions and they have to be comfortable with it, as in George Orwell's 1984, where Winston was told that two plus two is equal to five. Sometimes it's equal to three. But the most scary thing is that novel ends by saying Winston loved Big Brother. So the burden of the book and that chapter is let's get back to the truth. That is in God's Word and, as you know, every chapter ends with a declaration of dependence and an action step. I want people to be able to read this book. I know that parts of it are quite philosophical, but I think anyone can read it. I want people to be able to read this book and then to ask themselves the question what can I do in light of what I've learned?

25:12 - Speaker 2
solves the question what can I do in light of what I've learned? Yeah, so good. In chapter seven you write the title is Returning to the God of Truth, not Truthiness, and I love that. Speaking the truth in a world of lies you mentioned earlier at the start there about sin. I found this an epiphany.

25:29
We were on a tour with the church and we had just left Israel. We had an extension and we were in Corinth, greece. I'm sure you've been there. And as we were there before the Bema seat and we were teaching and all they were the vendors, they were the souvenir vendors and they're peddling these deities that have been frankly peddled there for thousands of years, and it dawned on me wow, here we just got done talking about the righteousness of God and how we want to finish our race well, so our target is heaven and we leave behind those things that would so easily ensnare us and set our sights forward. And then, as we're leaving the teaching and the site, you've got to somehow go through the gauntlet of these peddlers to get to the bus. And every form of Greek or Roman or Babylonian God and its icons were represented.

26:28
And it dawned on me all the gods of man's creation always condone what he wants. If you don't want what Diana gives you, that's okay. You can go pick Zeus, or you can go pick Eshtar or anybody else. I just found it enlightening. Else I just found it enlightening.

26:51
Man will always pick the God or gods that gives him the permission to do what his flesh wants to do. And the Lord comes along and says your flesh needs to die, you need to walk in the spirit. And what saddens your heart and mind is that you and I live in an age right now, shockingly so fast, where the chapters of your book there are pastors who would preach against your chapters. They would say no, no, no, no. God is tolerant and no matter what you say, he's tolerant. But when we use a different dictionary than what God has given us, we really get into trouble. Everybody in religion and or Christianity will talk about grace, They'll talk about love, they'll talk about repentance, but what dictionary are they using? And that causes me great concern, because in chapter six you talk about, is God more tolerant than he used to be? Well, I got to stop and ask somebody what do you mean by tolerance? And that's the sad answer that we get.

27:51 - Speaker 3
You know, Jack, you mentioning Greece and so forth. Have you been to Turkey? Have you been to Ephesus? Yes, Do you remember? When you leave Ephesus, where the buses are, you go through all of these stores and one of them has genuine fake watches for sale.

28:11 - Speaker 2
It's true.

28:12 - Speaker 3
I refer to that in the book.

28:15
Genuine fake watches, and there are many Christians in our churches who are genuine fakes. In other words, everybody believes that they are. And you know these watches they look like the real thing. Yeah, they do. In fact, they have coins that go back to the time of Rome. Now they're actually manufactured in Turkey today, but they look old and they are genuine fakes. And there are people today who are genuine fakes. Nobody knows that they're a fake, but they are genuine fakes, and so we have to challenge people along those lines.

28:53
Now, something else that I think is very important for us to understand is that, in the midst of all of this, what we have to do is to always exalt Christ and to help people to understand why he alone is the way, the truth and the life. And to your point about all the gods that you encountered there in Corinth that you spoke about, unbelief will always find what it is looking for. And one other comment, because you raised the issue of pastors. I want every pastor and everyone to listen to me at this point. Hope that they've been listening up until now. The big issue of our culture and in evangelical churches, is this based on the Bible, or will we interpret the Bible in light of the lens of culture. And that's why you see many evangelical churches giving the culture basically what the culture wants, because they are critiquing the Bible now based on culture. They say well, you know, this was Old Testament, this was New Testament, thousands of years ago. We have to change that and we have to update what the Bible actually says.

30:19
And one other thing that's a burden to me and one of the reasons, jack, I love to hear you preach is because I think that you are balanced in this area when so many aren't. What you find is, even among good evangelicals there's such an emphasis on the love of God, which we need to hear about, but no emphasis at all on the wrath of God. So what we have is true preaching, but it's unbalanced. Talk about the love of God and we don't understand the grace of God unless we understand the wrath of God. That's why I have that last chapter. You'd be surprised at the number of Americans who believe that they deserve grace. Well, if you deserve grace, it wouldn't be grace. That's right. So we have to help people to understand what the Bible has to say, and it is so critical that we get back to God's Word and not the words of man.

31:23 - Speaker 2
So good. Why do you think, dr Lutzer, why do you think there's such a drought in I'll just speak for America the American pulpit. If I'm down Tennessee, way, carolina, even Texas, areas of the deep south where you would, we used to know it as the bible belt and it had this reputation. Um, there's a church on every corner, but there's only five cars in each of the parking lots. Now you know. And so when you stop and ask somebody hey, what's going on where's? Where's what's happening on sunday in this town? Um, everybody's going over to the church. Where it is.

32:07
There's a lot of performance. There's a. It is. There's a lot of performance, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of. Aren't you great? You are really something, you're spectacular. And it's almost as though that ministers today are avoiding these loftier things of God that you do such a great job in the book to point out are his holy attributes. The wrath of God is not God losing his temper. The wrath of God is not wrong. The wrath of God is holy, but man has viewed it as some sort of well. God just lost his temper. You know, when you read that part, can you talk to us as to what's happening in the American pulpit today by and large.

32:50 - Speaker 3
You know, when I discuss what happened in Europe and Nietzsche's funeral for God, I say that there are three very important lessons we must learn. Number one we cannot take the existence of our churches for granted. You can come to, you know, our good friend Frank Turek asks have you ever noticed that there is no First Baptist Church in North Korea? My wife and I were in Albania. I ministered there. Communism shut down all the churches in the 60s, 70s and 80s. So we must recognize. So what are the lessons? Number one we can't take the existence of our churches for granted. Number two, and this is to your point what happens is churches make one concession and compromise after another, and they think, well, I can stop at a certain place, we can compromise here, but once they start down that road, there is no stopping place. And then the other thing that ought to bring tears to our eyes is this that even good men and women are willing to compromise if the pressure is great enough. And we have to be careful in not being too critical, because we don't know what we would do under those circumstances. But to your point, one other thing If you read my book, you probably read about Hitler's idea.

34:15
It was absolutely brilliant. It didn't work too well, but it was a brilliant idea. And the idea was to take British soldiers who had been killed, take their uniforms, put them on Germans so the Germans could go to allied territory because they had British uniforms, and create havoc. They changed road signs, they spread rumors, etc. Etc. Now, the reason it didn't work too well is because these Germans, even though they spoke English, still had a German accent. But here's the point about false teachers they wear the uniform of Christianity, but they are actually undermining Christianity, and so what you have in the church today is often the infiltration of false teachers who give the impression that they are Christians. They have the uniform, but they're actually working for the enemy. So what I try to do in the book is to help people to understand that we're always living in a very great danger zone, because human nature will always gravitate to whatever human nature wants, and human nature delights in false teachers.

35:34 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it does that thing to the ear that is not attuned to the voice of Jesus, has no desire for the voice of Jesus, but, as a stranger, a false shepherd will come along and speak things that will just satisfy their yearning, longing ears. It's tragic. And yet what you are describing, none of us should be surprised. If we've read not only the Gospels but the Epistles, and predominantly 1 and 2 Timothy. We were warned by the scriptures of the last days' manifestation of increasing deception among those that are pulpiteers or those that are dwelling or moving in the areas of spirituality. And to the point. I mean, my goodness, Dr Lutzer, could you imagine?

36:30
Right now we see things in the US where people are deceiving others by what they say. Can you imagine if the deception begins to come in such a way that Jesus said there's going to be signs and wonders that are going to be performed by what you and I know to be demonic powers? And I love this, I love how he said it this way, because there's a qualifier that, if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. So I thank God for that. If, but the deception? Is it safe for me to say that there's deception out there. It's increasing, but we ain't seen nothing yet.

37:16 - Speaker 3
Yeah, as a matter of fact, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking of your reference to the book of Timothy, 1 and 2 Timothy. It says this that there will be false teachers who will teach according to their desires. So I know I also write about desire-driven theology. Desire-driven theology is the kind of theology that I want, the kind of God that I want, and so that's what we are living and that's what we are up against.

37:48
So what we want to do is to encourage people to make sure that their church is on a solid foundation, balanced, preaching the gospel, doing so with brokenness and humility, not judgmental spirit, but a recognition that we are all desperate sinners but that Jesus, like it is often said, if you're a great sinner, we have a great Savior, and so we give our lives to him.

38:19
And we also recognize that here in America, we've had freedom to be able to do that. And this is not a part of the podcast, we could do one on the whole issue of whether or not politics is important. Well, the fact is this that it's important for us to recognize that the first responsibility of the church is evangelism and discipleship, but the reason that politics is important is that freedom is important so that we can evangelize and we can do discipleship. So that's really the goal of all things. So I'm so appreciative of the fact that we've had this opportunity to talk, and I want to say again, jack, that I just am excited about the opportunity of coming to your church, sharing with your congregation, uplifting them, reminding them that God is God and that, even though we experience an eclipse of God as a nation, god is always faithful to his people, and so we rejoice in that.

39:29 - Speaker 2
Amen. Wow, listen, it's going to be amazing. And here's what's fun about the title of your book is the fact that it says on the cover the eclipse of God and I would like to just put it this way to those of you who are watching us right now together is that you can attempt to do this. You can attempt to do this. You're not going to succeed.

39:55
In fact, the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, is the one who says in the book of Isaiah the Bible, the God of Abraham, isaac and Jacob, is the one who says in the book of Isaiah, chapter 1, verse 18, come, let us reason together. And that Hebrew word is come, let's argue. I love that. God is saying you want to talk about who's God, how it all ends, let's talk it out. And the word means to actually argue your case before God. And I could only say to you to actually argue your case before God, and I could only say to you good luck with that, because he's going to win every time. Jacob knew something about that. But the eclipse of God can only be attempted. It can never be achieved.

40:39 - Speaker 3
Jack, I have to just break into what you're saying. One of the things that I point out is that the eclipse of the sun does not affect the sun. Oh, yeah, yeah, it shines just as brightly as ever. Yes, and something else the moon has no light of its own, it's only a reflection of the sun. Secularism has no power that God does not allow it to have. So God remains in charge. And you know, the moon seems to us to be as big as the sun, but I also point out the reason for that is because the moon actually is much smaller than the sun. It's 400 times smaller because it is 400 times closer to us than the sun, closer to us than the sun. So when you look at secularism, you say, oh, it is powerful, it's overtaking. Always compare it with God and you'll be greatly encouraged, because God is still God. And, at the end of the day, remember that when the darkness comes, the sun is still shining.

41:42 - Speaker 2
Amen, amen, yeah, people, your life, my life, our lives go through some tremendous difficulties. I know that, the believer and the non-believer, we deal with death and we deal with pain and we deal with sorrow, but we want to introduce you or invite you to consider Jesus. In fact, while Dr Lutzer was speaking, he reminded me of a dialogue I had on a Southern California University campus where we set up a table and we just had Bibles and we were talking to people passing by. And I remember this young man, I think his name was actually Mo. He called himself Mo, which I'm sure was short for Mohammed. He said I'm a Muslim and I love the Christian message. I said that's great. And, dr Lutzer, to your point, there's those who acquiesce or confess. That's good, that's nice, but in this case, he said, the Christian message, the biblical message, is so much better than the Muslim message. He said there's no doubt about it. He said the problem is, your message isn't true and the Muslim message is.

43:04
And I said well, how has that worked out for you in life? What do you do, mo, when you sin? What do you do? Well, he said I work that off. I work that sin off. And I said do you have the assurance of eternal life? He said no, no one has the assurance of eternal life. It's impossible to have. And I said is this true that even when a Muslim blows himself up in martyrdom, that there are those who will be video recording it? And the word stated in Arabic is may may Allah accept him? I said is it true that that's even in doubt? Oh, he said absolutely. And I said how do you find peace? How do you have the forgiveness of sins and the presence of peace? And he said I have to wait and see about that. Well, you guys, today Dr Lutzer made it very clear there's a lot of religions and listen, like CS Lewis says, there are some that are closer to the truth, some further away.

44:10
But Lewis points out those that are closer to the truth. They may have elements of the truth, but they are not the truth. Christianity is the truth and we're not shaking our pom poms, cheering on Christianity because we're on that team. God rescued us out of a pit of miry, sinful clay. We were lost in our sins and God began to get a hold of us, and he can do the same thing to you.

44:35
I love what Dr Lutzer pointed out about. The great sinner has a great savior. People will ask me, jack, you know you're so animated and enthusiastic about God. This is true. I'm not animated and enthusiastic about any other topic. I'm enthusiastic about God because I know the level of my sin. I know the depth of my sin and what he rescued me from.

45:00
When you realize that you've sinned so greatly, and then you hear the gospel that you are granted a gift to be able to bring your sin to God, and he imparts you at Christ's merit, really his righteousness. It's this great exchange that God delights in, friend. There's no way that you could have sinned so far. That's beyond the reach of God. Light sin, friend. There's no way that you could have sinned so far. That's beyond the reach of God. The point is you need to turn to him even now and don't let sin, don't let your life or anybody else eclipse God in your life. So I want everyone to get this book and please know this everybody, and I hope you trust us by now if you've been listening to us long enough. We only bring to you the best. It's a big deal in my life to bring to you the best. We stay away from weird stuff. That's why you're seen in hearing this promotion of this book. Get it, in fact, get it through Amazon. I think that right. Are you okay with that?

45:54 - Speaker 3
Yes, amazon or christianbookcom. They have a wonderful sale and either way they can get it wherever books are sold. But Amazon, christianbookcom, that's the way the book can be purchased.

46:08 - Speaker 2
Yeah, amen. I personally like you guys to go to Amazon for this reason. It's a secular organization and when they see a Christian book sell big, it actually tampers with their algorithm, with their computer systems, because the computer systems say, wow, this book's awesome, we need to move it up the list. And it goes up the list. And then people open up Amazon and they say, wow, this is a big-selling book and it's written by a Christian, a Christian who loves you, telling you the truth More than ever, people, you need truth. Dr Luxor, it's awesome to have you with us. You honored me, you honored our podcast by allowing us to spend some time with you. The church, I'm sure, is going to be delighted when you're here. You're going to love them, by the way, and bring a lot of books, because they buy books. It's going to be a joy. We can't wait to have you.

47:02 - Speaker 3
Thank you, jack, and it'll be a very interesting time, because half the country is going to be mad and the other half is going to be glad, assuming we will know who the next president will be. So that's the time to attend church, church and remember that God is God and we aren't.

47:23 - Speaker 2
Always, always, true. God bless you, my brother. Thank you so very much. We love you. Can't wait to see you and everybody get out there and buy the book and be blessed by it in Jesus name, amen.

47:37 - Speaker 3
Thank you, sir, god bless you, jack, god bless. Look forward to seeing you. Amen. Thank you, sir. God bless you. Thank you, jack, god bless.

47:41 - Speaker 2
Look forward to seeing you. Amen, okay, guys, do I do the close now? Yeah, you can hang up, yeah. Oh yeah, that's true, we can say goodbye to him. Yeah, shane, are you there? So, dr Lutzer, we can say goodbye to you now, Okay, and I'll do the opening now, but thank you, thank you, thank you, and I assume you're going to be at NRB.

48:09 - Speaker 3
Yes, yes.

48:11 - Speaker 2
I'll see. I'll see you there. I'll see you there too.

48:13 - Speaker 3
All right, thank you so much. I'm glad it worked out, the technology worked and all of your team is happy. We're happy, we're happy. God is on the throne, so keep going on. And you know, at the end of the book I didn't mention this, but I point out to some Nazis are actually, I believe, going to be in heaven because they repented, because God said God's big enough. God said I can forgive a Nazi who believes on Christ, but I cannot forgive a good person who doesn't.

48:47 - Speaker 2
So there's a book. Maybe you can help me remember the author. There is a little book. It's titled Almost a Christian have you ever read that book, man. It's powerful, it's about, it's about what you've been talking about.

49:03 - Speaker 3
All right, thank you, jack.

49:05 - Speaker 2
Yep, god bless you.

49:06 - Speaker 3
God bless you. Thank you. I hope your technicians are happy.

49:10 - Speaker 2
Thumbs up. We're getting thumbs up.

49:13 - Speaker 3
Thank you, thank you See you later. Bye-bye, okay, bye now.

49:16 - Speaker 2
Hey, well, listen, like always, we believe that it's time for you to live out what you believe in. It's time for real life, and so we hope that this program has blessed you today. Remember, the best thing that you could do for us is for you to not only share this podcast with others, but if you could give us a rating and just encourage others to watch what we're doing. Notice, I hope you've noticed that we don't plead with you. We don't bother you. We want you to simply simply, which is the greatest, greatest thing that we could see is for you to tell others and spread the word, and so it matters to us. So listen until next time. God bless you guys, and be looking up. Christ is coming, but stay tuned until he does to hear more truth right here at the Jack Hibbs podcast. God bless, Thanks.

50:13 - Speaker 1
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