Why I Stand

Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. Hey everybody, you're about to hear an amazing podcast with an amazing young man, Jonathan Isaac, and you're gonna be blown away because what God has done with him to bring him to where he's at today will inspire you, so stay tuned. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast. Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us, that's like saying, amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you, here is Jack Hibbs. Hey everybody, welcome back to our Jack Hibbs podcast and we are so delighted that you've joined us and thank you, by the way, thank you for giving us a five star mark, thumbs up, sharing with others. Why? Because this podcast by God's grace is really taken off and that's because of you. We can only offer up what we have, but you take it and you run with it and God's been using it for that. We are grateful and so spread the word. Listen, before we get into today's podcast, you're going to love this. The scriptures tell us in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, listen to this. It says, therefore, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God and that is the Lord's calling upon all of our lives. And it is the calling upon the brother that we're going to be interviewing today, brothers, I should say. And we have with us in this very special podcast, Jonathan Isaac, who is the remarkable player for the Orlando Orlando magic. I don't know why I always think of Orlando. It's hot, so I think of heat and that's not a good connection. But and his pastor. And I want to say this right because it's French, but it's Dr. Durant. That's it. That's it. Hepburn. Hepburn. Hepburn. Now, how did you get the last name of Hepburn? My parents. That's a good question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to get all of this from the Bahamas. Somebody has to be from the Bahamas. That's right. But so we're going to we're going to dive in. We're going to talk about a lot of stuff. Everything from this young man's career on the court, off the court, challenges, setbacks, victories, all of it in a book, by the way. And we're going to be announcing this over and over again. You'll be able to get it at the site that is listed below. And I think most often, if it's not directly from his ministry, Amazon, but whatever is there, get the book. And here's what we always ask. When we believe in a message like Jonathan Isaac, his message, we ask you to actually get two copies. And there's the reason why. If you can afford it, do it because you're going to read one and you're going to hang on to it and then give the other one to someone in your life, especially a young person. So that's going to be a tremendous. So Jonathan Isaac, it is an honor to have you with us. And at the time of this podcast happening right now, this young man stood up in front of several thousand people last night. A lot of them, young people here, and just hit it out of the park because of how remarkably open and tender you were to them. And their response has been tremendous. So let's dive into a little bit as to who you are. And you mentioned to them last night, you mentioned to all of us last night, your, can I say insecurities, setbacks, fears. It's hard for us to handle that because we see you so confident, so strong, but yet you're a testimony to the work of God. Talk to us about it. Yes, so my name is Jonathan Isaac. I'm a play basketball for the Atlanta Magic. I'm 26 years old. And my story starts in Bronx, New York. My parents split up and I moved from Bronx, New York to Naples, Florida when I was 10. And I went from a predominantly black community to predominantly white community. And that's where the majority of my struggles started trying to fit in, trying to make friends, feeling a deep sense of insecurity about who I was. And basketball became the safe haven for me where I was able to make friends. And the girls wanted to talk to me because of how good I was playing, but it also was a great fear of mine of playing bad. Because if I played bad, I felt that I would lose everything that I had gained. I would lose the popularity. I would use the friends. And I was, I got into this, this cycle of working for love, working for acceptance, working for peace. Instead of resting in a piece or having something to, to call a piece to myself. And it wasn't until I got to the NBA after being the number one player in the, the state of Florida, being on anxiety medication, having panic attack episodes in college in the whole night. To meet in this guy on an elevator. And him saying to me, I can tell you how to be great. And you got to know Jesus. And from that moment, it was like God took the wheel and God has to this moment. I heard that last night. And then I couldn't wait for us to get together this morning because I wanted to, I wanted to ask Doc, how were you guys? How did that happen? First of all, in an elevator. Right. But what was the behind the scenes stuff? Were you there for some ministry, vacation, whatever? How did you bump into Jonathan? First, I want to say, thank you for having us. Oh, pleasure. You are awesome. You are awesome. I thank God for your heart. My wife said she saw you for the first time. She said, he looks like such a humble man. I say, honey, he's so nice. So I was telling about your spirit. So we can't wait to come back. Every time we come to California, we're coming to your church. So everybody, anybody we want you to know you need to come to pass the jack church in California because you're awesome. It is you, you are, who you know, you meet people. You see them on TV. But when you meet them, you get to see their heart. And we're seeing your heart. It's such a kind man. Thank you very much. With Jonathan, we lived in the same building. And when we lived in same building, I'm not a basketball fan. I love track and field. So when I saw Jonathan, I thought he played overseas. And yeah, I didn't know he was, he was just recruited to Orlando to be. And at the time, Jonathan didn't know whether he was going to be a start or not. And I also remember telling him, I say, you're going to start. I say, you're going to be a start. I just begin to speak over him. But before we met, I told him, I said, I knew, I ended up, I meet people. I always try to minister to them anytime. So it wasn't unusual to share the gospel. So when I saw him, I just told him, come and know the elevate. I was going upstairs. He was coming down. But Jonathan, you know, being an NBA player. Yeah. They just keep it moving. They don't check. They don't check anybody else. So when he came out, I said to him, I said, I can tell you how to be great. He said, tell me. I said, you got to know Jesus. He said, I know Jesus. But he was just living a different lifestyle. That was to keep me quiet, to keep it moving. Yeah. That's right. He really didn't want to hear. But we kept running into each other. And I went to my wife and I said, honey, I said, man, this young man, I know God wants him in my life. But he don't give me the time of day. So I just committed it to proud. So just pray it and we just kept running into each other. So one night, I went home. And when I went home, things was into, I decided to go out. Things was incorrect at home. So I went for a ride. When I went for a ride, I was just driving. And believe it or not, Jonathan was coming out of the movie theater. And I was driving past the same time. Oh, God. This was like 10, almost 10, 11 o'clock at night. Our cars, like he's going straight here and I'm turning. And our cars me window to window. Window to window. After I'd seen him a million times. Angels moving the cars, just organizing the steps of a righteous man ordered by the law. There you go. And you said about a movie. So a movie that night. Yeah, what's so interesting is I was, during this time, I had already went to that chapel. I went to a chapel service in the NBA. And the chaplain said, Luke 646, why do you call me Lord Lord and I do what I say? And that was the first time I felt confronted with kind of having Christianity in my back pocket. Well, wait, wait, where did you, you, you got that verse, but where did it come from? It came from a chapel service. So, you heard it in the chapel. Yes, 60 minutes before every game. There's a chapel. And one of my teammates invited me to it. So I went, I was a rookie in the NBA, was already, you know, living my, living the NBA lifestyle, went to the chapel service in the chapel, said, Luke 646, I never heard the verse before. Why do you call me Lord Lord and I do what I say? And I said, that's me. And so I had started saying, you know what? I'm going to figure out if this Christianity thing is real. Right. And I started watching a ton of apologetics, Frank Turing, William Lane Craig. We love Frank. John Lennings. John Lennings, I started watching everybody. And that's when I went to a movie with my old, a trainer in high school. He was a Christian, always trying to get me to do Bible studies. And I said, man, I just want you to be my trainer. But we went to see a Christian movie. So we went to see a Christian movie. It was awful. Unfortunately. No, I mean, yeah. So we left, we left it, but it's important for the time because we left that movie halfway through and went and watched Thor and Thor was like a three hour movie. Yeah. So then we're ending the thing and he says to me, where are you at with God, my trainer? And I said, you know what? Honestly, man, I'm searching. I don't really know. But he said, if you keep searching, you're going to find I'm pulling out a movie theater and Doc is pulling pulling across the same time. And then he said, you and me lunch tomorrow. So both of us ahead at home to where we live. And sure as day, we went to lunch the next day. You want to take it from me? So in the same way that I was searching, I came across a verse that says, whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me. And that was around Thanksgiving time. So I have it in my mind, I'm going to buy some burgers and pass it out to the homeless. That was his Christian thing to do. Yeah. So we go to lunch and we think it was breakfast. We go to breakfast and I start telling him about it. Like, because you know, he talked about Christmas. Yeah, I'm going to pass out these burgers to the homeless and he's like, you can't do that. Yeah, I'm going to get some points. Yeah, I'm going to get some points. Exactly right. He says, you can't do that. I said, why not? He says, um, you got a trip. If you're going to feed people, you got to feed people right correctly. And so he says, follow me. So I follow him to Sam's club. Now that I still don't really know who he is. Right. He does it. And I'm driving in the car. I'm going, what are you doing? You do not know who this man is. But I remember saying to myself something about this feels right. So I follow him. Wait, wait, you missing a part of the story. Go ahead. Tell the part where you said, this man is going to take my money and the food. Oh, you know, I'm going to wait a six foot 11 guys is intimidated. Well dressed. Well grown. Yeah. I'm in the car behind him. If I'm just saying, we get the Sam's club. I buy like $700 worth of food and he has some people come pick it up and I'm thinking to myself. I just fed this guy's family for a year. I'm not going to see him again. And uh, who do you think the next thing you know, um, we connect again. He sends me a text message about a place to come. Um, and I show up and there's a line of 200 homeless people to the 300 homeless person. And I hop in line. The food is all cooked. It's all prepared. I put my hair in it on. I stand next to this beautiful young lady. That's my wife today. That's right. Takeda for the first time. Boy, people need to stay focused on that. You want to find a husband and a wife. Find him in serving the Lord. That's right. Find him in the field in the field. Luke met Boaz in the field. Yeah. So I pull up next to her and then I put my hair in it on and we start serving the food. And it was, it was a, it was a beautiful, but just moment just serving the homeless and being out in the community. And I was injured at the time. I had rolled my ankle. Yes. And uh, he brought me inside of what looked like a church, but I'm still like, I don't know what's going on. And he prays over my ankle, uh, his wife prays over my ankle and several leaders. And I just remember feeling loved. And um, I remember a thing into myself that God was real. Like I had done all the apologetics. And I had gotten to that cliff. But that was the moment that I jumped off. Yeah. Where I was like, God loves me. And I went home that night and knelt on the side of my bed and said, Jesus, come into my heart. I remember the prayer from youth group. Yeah. And I started going. And then I just started. I told him, I said, you know what? I said, you need to come go to church with me. He said, I'll go, if you call the pastor, gotta be cool. So I took him to church. He didn't know who I was yet. He just called me Doc. And then when I came out, he said, you're the pastor. He didn't know I was a pastor up until then. Good for you. That's excellence. And it's being seven, almost eight years. Yeah. Excellent. Uh, getting back to the apologetic, we can, we can, we can do the science, right? We can do the learning. That's right. We can do all of the background work, which is fantastic. We should. And you did the right thing. God in His grace took that knowledge. That's right. And by circumstances and situations, knocked it down into your heart to bring you to that point to that moment where I need to, I need to know if there's any personality behind this truth, right? Because look, the 10 commandments, they're true, but they're stone. And the scriptures tell us that the law came through Moses, put grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. So you heard the truth, you knew the truth, but when you saw the love, and this is a great witness for all of us, the power of love to back up the, the science of theology or the science of an apologetic argument. It's great to know the answers, but it's great to know why there's the answer. And who is the one that gave us that answer? And he was just reeling you in by the power of his holy spirit. Yeah. And it was, it was exactly what I needed because of what I had been dealing with behind the scenes. Yeah. So everybody sees, you know, I'm the six pick in the draft, number one player in the state of Florida, but all the stuff that was behind the scenes to your point, it was like the apologetics addressed the mind issue in terms of like, you know what? I could see this being real, but the moment of, like you said, the Holy Spirit really me in and using it as a temperate, it became tangible. And then when I started going to the services and he's teaching on faith and love and grace. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it started to work on me. And I talked about it last night where there's all these little instances of God allowing me to kind of through him to stand up to fear that got me to standing up in front of the world. The people that you reached last night, not only just in the crowd, but those that were no doubt watching, we will find out over time. And then eventually we'll find out in heaven. But for me personally, my granddaughter last night when asked, how was it? She just shouted, great. And you know, listen, teenagers are hard to impress. Hard to please, yeah, for sure. Hard to please. And so what happened was, is that out comes this star, this man that has got everything that the world would seek after. But what people didn't expect, I think, was the humility and the package, right, of the redeemed Jonathan Isaac, who found his footing in Christ. Because you share things that by doing so, you allowed us into your private life. Did I get this right? Did I hear this right last night that you used to be so intimidated that you were speaking at a youth camp? And that even even caused you to be a panic attack? Yeah, I had a panic attack while I was at Florida State and talking to a bunch of kids. And I remember, I remember somebody fending my face afterwards and not even remembering what had happened. And I even had instances like that in high school. But getting to Florida State and being like the big man on campus, and everybody expecting that, we're bringing to Jonathan Isaac, he's the number one player in the state of Florida. I had all of this pressure on myself about being able to perform and realize. And like, if I don't, what everybody else would think about me, that I was a fraud, that I was, you know, I wasn't capable and all that stuff. Even though I was trying to keep the image in the forefront, it was eating at me on the inside. And I remember there were times where I would just be eating breakfast, and I would tangibly freeze. And my teammates would be like, bro, you're good. And I'm like, I'm trying to break out of it. I can't move. And let's kind of dig personal for a moment for the benefit of others. And I'll share why in a moment. But do you feel it coming on? Do you feel it somewhere when that, when that moment was arriving? It didn't hit you like a train, right? Did you kind of like feel momentarily coming on? Maybe a few minutes before that there's this, you might have noticed that you're breathing a shallow or something. Can you describe a little bit of that for others that might be going through that? Yeah, absolutely. It's just just a feeling of like uneasiness. And I remember just like sweating a bit. Just feeling like I had been overtaken by something in a sense of like, I'm okay and all of a sudden something is gripping me to where I'm not in control anymore. And my body's reacting to it with the sweat and with the not being able to make a sentence and then ultimately just completely freezing. I say it that way because for years up until 1983, I just stuttered really bad all my life. And even when I asked my wife to marry me, will you please marry me? She said thankfully yes in her mercy. But for people who stutter, I can tell you that you can feel there's about, I'm going to guess maybe 10 seconds ahead of time where you begin to feel this really bizarre, it's almost a pain on the inside. You know what you're about to say, but you can't say it. There's a disconnect and then that causes attention and a pressure where you feel your pulse immediately spike, you feel out of control. And you don't know what to say. And back in the day when I was young, bullying was a cool thing to do. So I even had teachers put me, Jackson on top of the desk and rechapter three and they would laugh and all that kind of stuff. It was intense and it just caused me, it caused me as a young, you know, gosh, I remember nine years old. I don't know how personal we can be. Wait, this is my podcast. This is true. So don't tell anybody. But I was walking home from school one day. I was nine years old. I can tell you what I was wearing. I can tell you that I had I had a white high top converse tennis shoes on. I had a white t-shirt on. Leave I leave I button up 501s. It's just riveted in my mind. I can see the faces of the six guys standing around me. And they were in their young teens maybe. So they said, hey, you're the guy that stutters and they started pushing me around. And so they pushed me down and then they began to hold me down. And each one of them took the opportunity as they urinated on me. And they said, this affix it. This affix it. And I have to tell you, when they went away, I got up, went home. As you can imagine, the stench, the humiliated forget the stench. The internal pain was so great that from that moment on, I started hurting people, however I could. And it was almost like, you know, in the some Italian movie where, you know, Guido shows up the bump somebody off and he says, you know, it's nothing personal. It was nothing personal. But I had so lost control that I had no control, couldn't talk. I couldn't talk my way out of anything that I became violent. And that allowed me. In Southern California, we had what's called Junior All-American football. And other parts of the states, it's called Pop Warner. So I started playing contact football. And I wasn't very big, but I was really mean because I had so much hurt on the inside. And so I did pretty good in football, but all for the wrong motive, right? Even buying hamburgers for somebody, but the wrong motive doesn't work. Well, for me, my motive was I had to bring people down to where I live. And basically this hellhole of life. And it was just terrible. And I got saved in 1977, heard the gospel for the first time, overwhelmed me that there was a father in heaven that loved me. But it wasn't until 1983 where God in one night healed me miraculously. But that being said, those are early years. And there's a lot of kids today. A lot of kids today that maybe it's their parents. Maybe it's their physical situation. Speak to their hearts. I would say that it's still something that I deal with. For you being miraculously healed, God, please. It's been a continuous battle of learning how to fight back and learning that I can fight back and learning that I have a choice to fight back. And many of the tools that Doc taught me was about using the word to speak back. He always said that if the devil speaks, you speak back and you keep it moving. And I remember so many instances of having that thought come across my mind, you're going to have a terrible game, you're a failure, all these different things. And saying back to myself, I got me the righteous or his boldest things. The righteous or his boldest lines. And it would combat it. And it would give me some lagging footing to stand on. And as I begin to do that more and more, I got to the place where I'm able to stand in front of people and talk and share and just learning how to rest in Christ's love. Not just that, but when Jonathan came on early on, I used to tell him come meet me at 530 prayer. So I started to build our relationship around prayer. I knew prayer was the foundation. He would be able to stand. So I started to teach him how to come to 530 prayer. He would come and maybe pray for 5 minutes and fall asleep, but that 5 minute turn into 10 minutes. The spirit was willing. The spirit was willing. Then he would go to 30 minutes and then but prayer was an integral part. So I started to develop that spiritual foundation. And I think that's what really begin to cause him to develop and really hear, lean that foundation of prayer. This, what you're saying, Doc, is amazing right now because there's the movie The Forge that's out there where it's really all about discipleship, discipleship making, loving men loving on younger men to build them up in Christ. And you live that out. I mean, that's that's exactly and that's what we're supposed to do. I've seen too many churches that are and don't get me wrong that are fixated on evangelism. And look, we're all in fact Paul told Timothy that we are to do the work of an evangelist. There is the gift of evangelist, obviously Billy Graham and others have that gift. But we're called in Matthew 28 to make disciples. And this is exactly what's happened here. Meeting the need, I think, is so important to be able to meet people where they're at. When I met Jonathan, he was meeting the need. He didn't have the furniture in his house. Certain things was in there when he would invite me over. So I saw things around that could have where I could have helped and ministered. So all of that was a part of just meeting the need. I think he went away one time and had a real bad game. And it was around Christmas time. And when he went away, he was he was feeling bad about Christmas, but somehow we snuck into his apartment. We put up a Christmas tree, we put gifts inside the house. And when he came back, it just just totally just that love just began to change. And by all by this will all men know you might disciples by the love you display. So that was really key too with the love we showed and the people in the church is minister when we could cook home, cook meals. We cook home, cook meals. Just met him where he was at and he saw that and that's what drew him. Sometimes we make ministry so hard, but it's just meeting the needs of persons when you meet their needs. You can't you can't defeat love. You can't pretend love. Love is real. And the Bible says love never fails. So as long as we operate in love, love always wins. No matter how it looks. So good. Love will always win. So good. It was God's love that won you. One us. That's right. That's right. How much when I said when you I'm talking about the pain that we were in, you said when you met that encounter with Christ was when you began to heal and you was just told me healed from that. So was that was God's love? You're making me think of something that I have I must confess right here right now that I have become so accustomed to God taking care of me. And it's what you mentioned a moment ago. And I've now I don't think I've ever said this before, but God healed me. But I cannot go out before any one of the three services on Sunday or the midweek service on Wednesday or wherever I might be guest speaking. I must confess the enemy even though he's defeated. Um, he never gives up. No, because I and you just made me think this and know this and realize this every time I get ready to go speak. I sense this attempted. This attempted ploy by the enemy. A thought will come into my mind when you get out there. You're not going to remember a thing that you've studied or you're not going to be able to say a word. You can it's insane. Yeah, it is. It's the battle. It's the battle. But you know what I want to say to that, but you could always tell that you were destined to be great because behind our weaknesses where our strength was, the enemy was trying to keep you silent, but look at the masses of people that you're reaching now. So behind that was now you're reaching the world through speaking. So he was trying to keep you silent. The same thing with Jonathan. God, he was trying to keep Jonathan and that paralyzed with fear so he would never be able to operate and become the man that God is calling the be that's now speaking to nations, speaking around the world. So behind that to everyone that's watching behind the weaknesses where their strength lies and unguarded weakness is a unguarded weakness is a double. That's where your strength is. So you got to guard your weakness. So so good. What can you say right now? I'd like you to say something to the men of a church, believers, they're wondering, Lord, show me my ministry. You know, is it take you know, show me this. God show me this. What would you say to them? When there's so many young men in the church that they're at, they have no father figure. They have no one to come alongside them. What would you commission a man? Let's say, I don't know, 35, 45, 55, 65. What would you say to him with all of the ministry that's right under his nose? You know, he's looking beyond. One of the first things I want to say is it's so important to get plugged into local church and find a pastor. When I was young, I didn't have a father in the home. My mother basically raised four boys. So church was my refuge. I came I came the Christ at age 11. So I run the church and I plugged in. And anytime you go get planted, God is strategic. He has a plan for our lives. There's always ministry around us. So even if you don't know what to do, get plugged into a ministry, whatever it is, whether it's helping with the youth, whether it's helping the pastor carry his briefcase, get plugged in, plug inside of something in that. And because God has a plan, he will strategically set up the pieces. He will put it together where he wants you to go. But if you're not plugged in, if you don't get make yourself available and become a part of ministry, then what God wants to reveal in your life, it can be revealed. So I would say to every young man, get plugged in, get under your pastor, get into youth group, become a part of something, whether it's bread is cooking, everybody has a gift. Whatever that gift is, use it. And then watch how God will set the divine appointments and put things together. David was Joseph was a dreamer. But what happened to Joseph? Joseph find himself just using his gift and his gift put him in trouble. But ultimately God's destiny and plan came to pass in his life. The devil couldn't fight it. So the Bible says to Jeremiah from Jeremiah, before you is in your mother's womb, I knew you. That's my first. And I ordained you to be a prophet. To the nation. To the nation. So nothing could stop it. So once God has a plan for you, get plugged in in a local church. When the enemy fights people from going to church, well, are they trying to take my money? Your churches are not real. And I want to even speak to that. You go to work and people at work hurt you, but you still got to go to work. You have family members of her church. That's true. You have family members of her church, but you're still a part of the family. When you want something, you got to stay planted, stay rooted, and then God will get it to you. But you got to fight for what you want. Nothing comes easy. And I would put it this way. You got to show up. You got to show up. Show up. Oh, Lord, you know, show me the need. Show me the need. Look around. That's right. So many needs. And you find out the need. That's right. By first of all saying, hi, what's your name? That's right. Just getting that name. And what you did, there's a, there's a friend of ours that wrote a book called Ignite Your Life, Barry McGuire. And it's all about, he says, it's all about moving people just one step closer to Jesus. And that's an act of love every day, just no matter who they might be. Love on those who either need encouragement, they might know the Lord, but they need encouragement, or they need to know the Lord. And that is a tangible, tangible witness. Let's change gears a little bit. What's the inspiration behind the book? What's brought you to doing this? And by the way, I'm looking at the back of the book with endorsements by Ben Shapiro, Franklin Graham, Tim Tibo and others. Jonathan, what inspired you to write? Why I stand? Well, the, really the big thing is the stand itself, right? So, you know, back in 2020, I talked about it last night with the tragic death of George Floyd and figuring out how to maneuver through that crisis as a black man. Yeah. And as a, as a black Christian man. And so I remember as everything was going crazy and there were riots, Doc was preaching. And he talked about the moment that Peter lunges forwards and cuts off the guys here. And Jesus said a word. If you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword. And what he was trying to get us to understand was that in this moment in time, if we act in the same way, if we act in the way that's, that's our nature to us, which is to retaliate, which is absolutely, which is reasonable. But it's not right. And it's not right. And he said, if we can step into this moment with love and grace and truth that we would see real change. And I remember we did a, we did a whole walk through a, through downtown. We called it, lift up the lights, hold up the lights, where we said, if Jesus named he lifted up, he would drop into a sub right during that time. We walked through the streets. And then we went into what was called the bubble. And that, that was where this culminated. And you know, we had a, a team had knelt before us already. They knelt for the National Anthem and the World Black Lives Matter t-shirts. And they knelt. And so we had a team meeting and everybody's like, look, we don't have a choice. We, we need to kneel because this team already knelt. It's over. And I'm watching you. I'm not knowing you at the time. I'm watching you on the news. I mean, I'm seeing this unfold. Where here's this young man standing. Yeah. And so with all the pressure, with all the pressure, frankly, I mean, putting his total career on the line. Yes. Absolutely. They could have just said, you know, absolutely. Remember now they would not, they were ex-immunicating. Yeah. People were getting canceled. People were getting canceled. That was their thoughts and we're getting canceled. And one of my teammates turned towards me and like, Jonathan, what are you going to do? And it was like that same moment of fear gripping me. And I said, I said, fellas, I'm not going to kneel. And I'm not going to wear the t-shirt. And I said, I cannot throw stones from a glass house. We all fall short of the glory of God. Such a great response. One of the things that I said was that if we could love each other, the way that God loves us, which is in spite of our sin, in spite of our shortcomings, then we could have real change. And it wasn't that I didn't see an issue. Like, you know, people will say because I, because I decided to stand, I'm saying that that issue doesn't exist. No, I'm saying that one, that's not the only issue. Ultimately, the issue is the hearts of men. And we're truly changing the hearts of men as a gospel with Jesus Christ. The love of God. The love of God that changed me. So great. And just bring it together. Yeah. So after the bubble kind of happens, I hurt myself the next game. So I stood in the bubble. Which injury was this one? Is my ACL. Is ACL. To remember, then remember, he just stood that night and then the next game was where he injured himself. The very next night. I know this is like, okay, Lord. And so as I'm dealing with that, you know, Doc comes over to my apartment and he's like, you need to write a book and he said, people know you're standing with this. This is after the injury. After the injury. I said, people know I came dancing. And I didn't say you're just going to write a book. I said, you're going to write a book and you're going to make a movie. I said, you're going to write a book and you're going to make a movie. And so we started to work towards the book and everything just kind of came together. What was so funny is that I go tell my agent, hey, you know, I'm looking to write a book. He was like, I literally just got off the phone with a book agent. That was saying that you need to write a book and it came together. And we did it and the name was called Why I Stand. And what's really remarkable about the book for me, it's not the stand. It's not any of that. It's the full story that takes you back into how I started, which to me speaks to the reality of Christ being an answer, the answer. Because people, you know, they would look at the stand and so many people were like, oh, you're so courageous, you're so bold. And this was able to show them. It's not how it always been and it's always been a battle. And this is how I got from here, from taking these identification to standing in the human world. I love it because when we look at the incredible exploits, Daniel 1132 says, those who know their God shall carry out great exploits, when we look at these remarkable events of the Old Testament, we all love them. We read them and the temptation is to make them a Sunday school story. They're not a Sunday school story. They are actual events. These things really happen. And so when we read about this incredibly outnumbered army of Israel's got just a scrappy 300 group of guys or whatever it might be, God comes through. And it's been my understanding of scripture that God doesn't move with the mighty. He doesn't move with the numbers. He seems to use those that are weak. He seems to use those fewer number. Of course, the scripture says that he would get the glory. And that I think that is a fundamental thing that we allow me to allow two pastors to just kind of riff right now on this, where if we would get back as a church in the 21st century to what the first century church was so much empowered by, they were weak, they were just starting. Now they had no manual, they had no church conferences to go to and they were open, vulnerable to the Holy Spirit empowered by God. He's the same Holy Spirit today that he was then. So why don't we, why do we not see these powerful things be done? I think we are if we realize what you just said. Lord, I know that in me, well, there's no good thing. And that's not like an insult. That's not God beating us up. That without him, there's no eternal value. But with him, there's infinite eternal value. And we don't go around saying stuff. We go around because we have something to say. And if it's Bible coming out, then I think we can expect results. I think we should actually expect that. When Jonathan told me, one of the things in Jonathan called me that night that he echoed, I told Jonathan, he was, when he was nervous about standing, he said, Doc, I don't know, if you know what's going to come out of this, I don't know if you know what's going to come out of this. I said, listen, you can't stand for God and God must stand for you. And I was so true. It was just so true. And God has proven that. And I told him under things, I said, then I said, this will echo for the rest of your life. I said, this will echo after you die. I said, your children will help children. I said, this will echo for the rest of your life because it's attached to eternity. God is eternal. I said, so whatever you do for God will last for ever. And it's, it's rippling, the book, the clothing line, the things that has happened just out of daughter. It's just rippling. And we have, the movies will come and there'll be, there'll be a number two movie, then a number three movies. There will be sequels because nothing in God stops. He takes us from glory to glory to glory. As long as we give it to him. That's right. That's right. It's not under the book. It's not only the book, which by the way, you guys, you can see the link where you can get the book, get the book, get two books, share one with somebody else. But wonderfully published by Daily Wire. What an honor. Daily wire. I mean, my goodness. First book. Yeah. First book. First book. First book. It's the first book they published. Right. I think they just, yeah, they just started their, their, they did DW books. Yeah. Angle or side of the business. Anyway, we were first. That's fantastic. That's right. But it's, look, watch this. It's not only that. I want to save this for last. Okay. This is correct. So it's not only that, let's talk about this. Right here, I'm holding a box that is my box. Jonathan gave this to me last night. You had a deal with Nike and situations changed and God led you to create your own line. And when, when we say his own line, we're not talking about something off. Right. We're not talking about something less than this is remarkable. You guys, I don't know if you visit, visit the site and take a peek, take a look. But I got to tell you, Jonathan gave these to me last night. And I'm torn because I put them on immediately and they're amazing. But then I don't want to wear them ever again because I just wanted to have them as like a little trophy piece. But tell us about how this came about and the quality of the shoe. I mean, this is legit. This is NBA legit. This is not some half-hearted attempt. That's why I read that passage out of Corinthians. Everything that you do, do it, do it wholeheartedly under the Lord to the glory of God. Talk about this thing. I mean, this is absolutely incredible engineering. Yeah, thank you. So these are the Judah one low tops. And the way it started, you talked about it. I was signed to Nike while I was in the bubble. I was a Nike athlete and ended up not resigning me after my injury. And I went to doc and I was like, hey, I'll probably be looking for because I would have to go through a bunch of rehab. And I said, when I come back, I'll probably looking at a deedist or another brand to wear. And he said, why don't you make your own shoe? And I said, you're insane. You know, that's, that's a wild man. You know that. But that's pastors. That's why it's so important to be planted. Because when people are sitting under the word, they have a pastor, a leader to go to who can give them godly counsel. Then I was as there's safety in the multitude of counsel. People believe that they don't need a pastor, but you then I was like, how will you hear without a preacher? I love it. And fake coming by hearing. So you got to hear a preacher. So you're fake and grow. So just how you need to doctor in hospital, you need your pastor. Yeah. Yes. People don't understand the necessity of their pastor. Yes. I love it. So love it. So I was obedient, even though I didn't quite understand it first. And I started making phone calls and called my agent and told him about the idea. And he was like, okay. Yeah. And we just, we ran with it. And the first shoe that we created was the Judah one. It was the high top version of this. You know, there's still on the website now. But it was the first NBA signature sneaker with visible Bible verses on the outside. Yes. I don't know if you guys can see that. If not, we'll take a, we'll take a closer look. So this, this shoe is called spotless. The name of this shoe is called spotless. Psalms 51 and 7 cleanse me Lord. Yes. Made me as wide as you know. Yes. So that's why it's called spotless. And each shoe has its own Bible verse. And each shoe has its own kind of name. So I wore the, the high top version all the last season. And these little tops dropped this summer. And I'll be wearing them for the next season as well. But it's, it's been the culmination of, like you said, the hard work and God just ordering the steps and filling in the details to be able to produce something of this magnitude. These are the actual shoes that I wear in the NBA. Very good. Did you hear that, everybody? The actual shoes he wears. And I, and I got to tell you, put, put one on. Like I did last night for the first time. And, and you'll, you'll sense and know the quality of it, which is absolutely excellent. Um, where's it available? You can go to we, we are United's.com. We are United's, which is the name of the company. That's the, we call that the parent. Is it with every the parent company? We are United's.com. And I'll say that when the first idea was just the shoe. It was, okay, we're going to make this shoe. My middle name is Judah. Jonathan Judah Isaac. So I said, hey, we're going to call it. Jonathan Judah Isaac. I mean, how does somebody get a name like that when you're born in Israel? My dad is Jacob and I'm, I'm his fourth son. That's right. So yes, so that was the idea was initially just the shoe. And then we had another conversation. And he was like, we need to, we need to make it bigger. And the idea was that the thing that comes to my mind and I've been talking about it a bunch is encouraging the body and allowing people to take the word of God with them on the court, off the court in their everyday lives through their footwear. And then it turned into clothes. And he came up with the name United's. And I remember, you can tell. That's right. Yes, I think, I think, I think I need to hang around you. Well, I love hanging around you. So we could do that any time. As I want to get all that wisdom. Oh, my goodness. The other way around. What happened in, I was in prayer and I was, we were, you know, just praying about the name and we have the ark of the covenant in the church. And I saw the two cherubims pointing their wings at each other. And I said, God, this country is so divided. I said, only you could unite that. That's right. Only you can unite us. So I said, I said, the name is United's. Perfect. You're the name is United's. And I call him, I said, Jonathan, the name needs to be United's. And that's how the name came up with the two angels pointing their hands. Only God could unite. That's right. That's right. That's how we got the name. And then, and we started running with it. And now it is what it is today. It's growing. We went from the, you know, the high tops to the low tops. Later this fall, we'll be dropping our first like a shoe outside of basketball. So it'll be a trainer. I've got them all right now. So I won't take them off the show. But I'll follow it. I'll follow instructions. Show them. So this shoe, it's called the Fortra. And this is going to be dropping later this fall. This is one of six colorways that we'll have. They all have, um, first Samuel 230 on the back. First Samuel 230. He who honors God, God will honor. And so we're taking this shoe as we're going to honor God. We're going to honor God with every step. And so, uh, these will drop, we didn't do. And then one of the colorways is purple. And it has Esther 414 on the back. And that's our mom's colorway. This is our mama's bear. And I talked to you a little bit yesterday about after we dropped the initial six, we're going to come out with a life colorway. Yes. We're Jeremiah 29. Explain this. Uh, if you can, I don't know what you can say or not say about this. But, um, friends, obviously, you know, the life issue is, is the number one issue on the planet today. And it should be because it's human sacrifice. The offering up of, of children, unborn children is, is from ancient times. We talked a moment last night about how I believe it's Jonathan Khan who wrote the book, The Return of the Gods. And it's, it's technically the return of the demons. And what are the manifestations of that is the taking of the unborn life. And so, you are going to put out what is a theme of this shoe of this shoe called the fortress. So, this is, it's going to be a specific colorway unto itself. And we're going to do it in conjunction with live action, um, and Laila Rose. Um, so I was on our podcast the, the, the yesterday. Fantastic warrior. Yes. It'll be, it'll be its own colorway and the verse on the back will be Jeremiah 29 and 11. And people will be walking around supporting life. So people buy these online. Yes. Until, until you have a storefront of your own. In Jesus name, we, in Jesus name Lord, will we grow big enough to have a lot of stories? It's going to happen. May there be storefronts, uh, because I'm, I'm going to guess, uh, the NBA or ESPN or NBC, they don't, they don't zoom in, right? They don't zoom in with the camera during, no, fortunately, they probably avoid your shoe. They probably see you, they, they'll cover you going down the court to ankle out, sure, because they don't want to get that Jesus involved in things, but they can't stop it. They can't stop. They can't stop it. Yeah, they can trial. They want, they can't stop. Um, gosh, I wish you guys could look at this and, and hold it and feel it, and it's so impressive. I can't even begin to imagine how you go about finding the engineers that put this together. And I mean, I mean, engineering, it's, it's amazing. Um, so uh, this is going on and at the same time, because, uh, you do not avoid controversy, which I love. In fact, listen, hey, you guys, people will get along very good. People avoid controversy. They live a boring life. Jesus was controversial. Yeah, right. And, and we don't go around picking fights. That would be gross, because we, we need to go around sharing the love of Christ. But listen, the truth of the matter is, when evil, uh, rare as it's ugly head, we're supposed to confront evil. And second Corinthians 10, verse six, Paul told the Corinthians, which, I mean, I've been to Corinth. I don't know if you guys have ever been to Corinth, but after visiting Corinth and looking at the archaeological evidence of how debase the Corinthian culture was in the first century, if you wanted to insult somebody, you called them a Corinthian. That's how bad it was. It's like somebody today saying, he's a Californian. It's like, wow, uh, well, Paul said to them, by you being obedient to Christ, your obedience will punish all disobedience and your obedience shall be spoken of. What a remarkable verse. It almost sounds like an Old Testament verse, because it sounds a little bit militant. But when we talk about punishing disobedience, it's not violent. It's righteousness. It's doing the right thing. And so this is the right thing. That's right. This is the right thing. He didn't have to do any of this stuff at all whatsoever. Uh, but here's one of those examples of the right thing, of the right thing to do. So on the back is that wonderful name, the brand, United's, okay. And this shirt is, I stand with Israel. I stand with Israel. Can you see that? Let me get that out there. So the reason why I'm going to be very, very bold. The reason why I'm showing you this right now is because I want you to buy them. We don't ever do this right. Do we ever ask for money on this podcast? Never. Um, but and I'm not promoting anything that I've done. This is everything that Jonathan is standing for and doing. But you guys, if you're any part of this audience, you know that we stand with Israel. And so if you want to bless the people of Israel and if you want to bless the God of Israel, uh, stand with Israel. And Jonathan has put together this t-shirt and where do they get the shirt? Same location. Yeah, same location. We are United's.com. And I will say a portion of all the proceeds go back to a company called United Hatsala in Israel. They do on live medical work, on motorcycles taking medical aid to different things and people when there are those unfortunate attacks. That's right. You can't beat it. You can't beat it. You can't. Please, please, is it, what's the price of this? Actually, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is for. Unfortunately, look at the site. I think 20 bucks on the website. So get them. Please get them. And, um, you know, we need to get, by the way, we need to get, we need to get these into Israel. Yes. So that Israel will know that there's someone wearing this shirt that stands with them. Because right now you guys, Israel feels so isolated. They've been so maligned by the media. It's, it's horrible what's been going on. And, um, and so this, again, this is another brave, brave stand that you're taking. And so you should to be, to be honest with you is because God said to us in Genesis 12, I'll bless those who bless you, those with the children of Abraham. So, um, so what, what more? What's, what's next? What's, what's happening in your world next? What's, uh, just, uh, just continuing to grow. I, I had this kind of like a revelation yesterday, um, where we were riding in the car and I remember, um, the, the brand, uh, uh, phrase for United States is redefine greatness. And, uh, what that means to me is that the world has a version of what greatness is. How much money you have, your accolades, everything that you've done. Um, but to truly be great is to honor God. And so what's so interesting is that's the first thing you said to me. I can tell you how to be great in the elevator. That's right. I can tell you how to be great. You have to know Jesus now. What a great, what a great statement. Yes, because you can give that to anybody. That's right. That's right. At any time. That's right. At any time. I can tell you how to be great. Yeah. Wow. And my, my thinking is, okay, you're going to tell me how to be great while I got to, I got to do more pushups. I got to do more shots. That's human. That's our human works. That's a human works. Exactly right. He said, you got to know Jesus. And I'm living it out to say everything that I have given to Christ in terms of my life and my surrender, um, has brought me into what true greatness and the redefinition of what greatness is. And everything that's been me has taken me in the wrong direction. Yeah. And it's taken me in this pursuit of an artificial greatness that the world offers. Um, but if we could really rest in that in our hearts, that to honor God is to truly be great is to walk in the redefinition of greatness, um, then we'll do it more often. So, do you know, he's preaching to himself and we are to do this. Yeah. I think it was Adrian Rogers, um, had made the comment or, or maybe Charles Stanley had said, and he was probably repeating some great preacher before him that every day we need to preach the gospel to ourselves. Yeah. And that is a reminder of God's love for us and God's purpose for us. And so when you say what you say, when you remind yourself, when you are now telling us, uh, of, of greatness of using everything to the glory of God, making a statement, telling your story, uh, so others can be inspired. You are literally worrying against that past that held you bound. Yes. And I mean this to encourage you. Um, I've been a Christian for a very long time and the battle, the document you mentioned earlier, the battle's not going to go away. I don't believe the Lord allows the battle to go away because it's how we keep our sword sharp. And so you're such a great example of battling through with the Lord through all of these things, injuries, setbacks, pressure to bow the knee. Um, all of it, you have plotted along. You've just kept going and God has blessed you with a godly man in your life. I just want to add this. That when we say, when Doc says, I can tell you how to be great. And then Jonathan just says, redefining greatness. Yes. That Jesus Christ is that model. So we're not talking about greatness, like put my name on the plaque, put it up on the lights, give me a star in the walk of fame. Jesus made it very clear that greatness is serving your brothers and sisters. The one who the ones among you are to be the greatest will be the servants of all. And that is the joy of true, biblically based Christianity. And we're seeing in our world today the church being prepared. It's almost as though God has no, no longer much patience for the flouting, flaunting and pushing of human greatness within the church. The world's going to do what the world does. Sure. Sure. They don't father forgive them. They don't know what they do. That's right. But when you're the star in a church setting, something's very wrong, something's ill. But if you're going to be a servant of all, he defines that greatness. Right. And when he does, he gets your witness and your message out there. And so I want you to know, we are 100% committed to Jonathan Isaac to unite us to getting this out. That's why I'm not being embarrassed or ashamed for the first time ever to plead with people to get the book because it's worth the read because it's got something to say. Get these NBA quality, uh, fent witness their mark with scripture. What more, what more can this young man do to get the body of Christ pumped up and ready to go? Because listen, people spent, I don't, people spend ridiculous amounts of money to put on Nike's and all this other stuff. Come on. Uh, forget them. We know what they stand for. We know where they're at. There's a better thing going on. There's a better thing going on. And we need you to get behind what this young man who loves Jesus is doing. We don't hear this enough. We don't have the opportunity enough to promote this. And so, uh, we're going to stay in touch from this time on. And we're going to do everything possible to get you out there. A duck, uh, some final words before we pitch the final words to them. I think that it's important for people who are watching to understand God is not trying to take something from them. He's trying to get something to them. John and then had the mindset that something was trying to be taken from him. That's what the world thinks. But God is trying to get, get you to greatness, the book, the shoes, his family. It far exceeds that. So eternity with God was trying to get which becomes tangible. People think that when they get saved, it's just about, just about losing everything. But you lose your life, but you gain so much more. The Bible says, whoever leaves father, mother, brother, sister in this life. So in this life, she'll receive 100 full, not just when they go to heaven. He said in this life, and Jonathan is getting the blessing of coming to the Lord and seeing the manifestation. So people remember now, all of this has happened when he was injured, not when he was in the game, when he was injured. So God showed him, listen, I got your back off the court. And I got your back on the court. And it's something I always quote to Jonathan, I said, off the court, on the court. I said, whatever you do in life, you can manifest on that court. I said, if you're strong off, you can be strong on. I said, if you could fight off, you can be able to fight on. So looking at the enemy, at the teaching behind the scene, so spiritual, that spirituality being built, we made spirit, soul and body. The best part of us is our spiritual part. When that's built up, nobody could stop us. That's why it becomes out of your mouth is so important. That's why this podcast is so important. And you're speaking with what you're doing is you're speaking life into people's spirit. So be encouraged. And listen, you don't stop. I told you, but I see movies on you. You don't stop because the best is yet to come. You don't stop. You keep going because God has so much more for you. So beautiful. Thank you so much. Jonathan, closing words, man. Just thank you so much for having us. And I truly appreciate it. You are the most down-to-earth guy that I've met. Yes. And so I'm truly appreciative. And like you say, we're going to stay connected. And thank you to everybody that's watching. And I'm grateful. We would love to stay connected. We will. We will. Everybody, listen, pray for Jonathan Isaac. Pray that God just elevates him even more in the NBA and puts him forward. Not only the NBA, because you know what? The NBA is not his identity, right? It's the Lord Jesus Christ. And so because of that, it's evident that the Lord is opening up more and more doors for him to get out the word of God. He could have put his name on the back of this. He put scripture on the back of this. So wherever you're at, whoever you are, many of you have contacts. Many of you are in industries whereby these wonderful productions can be used to advance the kingdom. Do your part, play your part. And I was reading last night in closing. I was reading where in Oxford, England, there's a black X that is in the street. It's called broad streets. They're in Oxford. And at the point of that X is where three very famous reformers of the faith died. They were burned to death at that spot for their faith because they believed that everybody should have the word of God for themselves. And I had the chance to stand there, even though I was reading about this, but I was reminded having stood there and then reading last night the fact that in this moment when these men were tied to the state to be burned and everybody was surrounding them. They were spitting on them and cursing them. That was the organized religious hierarchy that had turned on these, these preachers of the word of God because they simply wanted to bring to the people the word of God. The strong statement was made. I believe it was by Fox. Fox had said to Bishop Ridley, he said, play the man. Be strong and play the man because what catches fire here, thinking about themselves, what catches fire here will become an unquenchable flame throughout all the world. And I read that last night and I was moved by that because that's not only true in history. It's true for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ. For God's soul of the world, that's you, that he gave us only begotten that's glorified son, that whosoever would believe on him would not perish but have everlasting life friends. Jonathan found his liberty in this freedom and the identity of Christ. It's not by how many scores, it's not by how many efforts he does, how many points he gets in the sense of God, are you happy now? No, the Lord is happy with Jonathan Isaac because the Lord sees him wrapped in the blood of Jesus Christ. And that robe of righteousness that Jesus provided for us is available to all those who will simply ask, but there is a prerequisite. There is something required of you. It is this, Lord, I'm a sinner. I'm a sinner. I have failed. I've sinned against you God and I'm sorry for that. And I want to make it right. I want to receive your free gift of eternal life. And I want to have this great exchange. I want to become a new creation. I want to have this power that I've heard about in this young man's life and in Doc's life. I want to have this power. I want to know God. I want to end my life with purpose and meaning because to you, Lord be all the glory. You can simply pray that prayer in whatever words you want. There's no magic prayer, but invite the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your life. And if you do that, let us know. We'd love to pray with you. Contact us. But in the meantime, friends, pray. This is your mission now. Pray for Jonathan Isaac that God would bless his witness. We need more and more people just like him. So, God bless you. Doc, thank you so much for being here. I give hubby nuts. Oh, just our pleasure. Jonathan, incredible. Thank you. God bless you. Take care, church.