The Gospel Of Marx

Well, everybody, welcome to the Jack Hibbs podcast, the Jack Hibbs show. We're trying to make that pivot, make that change. That's what we're supposed to be doing these days. But it's a podcast, like it or not, And we're really glad that you guys are with us. And we have got a topic and a guest today that is going to blow your heart and mind. And I'm talking about having him back with us. We had him some time ago, but we have with us back is Dr. Erwin Lutzer. 36, oh, 37 years ago. Well, 36 years he spent pastoring the great Moody Bible Church in Chicago, legendary church in Chicago. And a prolific author, as I mentioned back almost a year ago, you guys, he had something like 70 books under his pen and even more now. We're going to be talking about a brand new book that he has written. And this book, listen to this, the title of the book is Mark's. and Moody, if I'm getting that right, Marx and Moody. We're gonna be talking about the difference between Karl Marx and a contemporary, a man by the name of Dwight L. Moody. And yes, the same Moody, that this great pastor who pastored this church. And there's so much we're gonna learn. We're gonna learn about how they were contemporaries. The two of them, we're gonna learn about their two gospels that they preached. And we're going to learn about their tombstones. That ought to be fascinating. And then we're going to find out that there's only really one choice. And that's always the situation, folks, by the way. Satan would love to flood the market with options and all kinds of choices. And it really doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you're sincere about it. That's kind of like Satan's way when Jesus is the opposite. Jesus says he is the way, the truth, and the life. And no man comes to the Father but through him. Jesus says that there is a broad path that's easy going. And a lot of people are on it that leads to destruction, but narrow is the path. And few people are on that path that leads to eternal life. Make sure that you know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Don't write me and tell me that you're a member of some first Baptist Church and that's why you're going to go to heaven. That's not going to work, folks. It's the atoning blood of Jesus Christ coming to him. And so we're honored. Dr. Luther, it's great to have you with us today. And I'm excited about this brand new book because so much of what you write is passionate to me because it's reality. And I hope people pay attention because what you're going to be saying to us, if they're paying attention or not, they're still going to live the reality of this. Yes. And we, you want to equip them. What inspired you to write this? Jack, here's what happened. Recently, I was in England leading a tour to the sites of the Reformation. And as I was preparing a lecture to be given at the grave of Karl Marx, it dawned on me that these two guys were contemporaries, namely Marx and Moody. They shared life on this planet for 46 years together. Wow. And of course, Marx would have known of Moody. That's a separate story because of Moody's evangelistic work in London, where he spoke to tens of thousands of people. But here's the point. I began to think about the fact that these two guys are very, very different. And this led me into a study of Marxism, and of course Moody. And the book actually is co-authored because the man who's doing the Moody section is Greg Quiggle. He's a guy who taught Reformation theology at Moody and so forth. But I became interested in Marxism and especially what began to motivate him. Now very briefly to give some background. Marx was actually born in the Rhineland of Germany His parents were Jewish. But his father converted to the Lutheran faith, probably because he didn't become Catholic, even though the town was 90% Catholic. Maybe because Lutheranism would give him more latitude of thought. People don't know whether or not it was a genuine act, but nonetheless. So Marx was actually baptized at the age of five or six in a Lutheran church. Now here's where every parent needs to listen up. In his early days, teenage years, he wrote some wonderful things about Jesus that I quote in the book, about how Jesus is Lord and how he's the only one who is able to help us. But that sure changed. Now here's what I discovered, because we're going to be talking about Marx's relationship with Satan. At the age of 18, his father, Friedrich, wrote him a letter. At times I cannot rid myself of ideas which arouse within me, foreboding and fear, when I am struck as lightning by the thought, is your heart in accord with your head and your talents? Has it room for earthly but gentler sentiments? And since that heart is obviously animated and governed by a demon, not granted to all men, Is that demon heavenly or is it Faustian? Wow. Will you ever be capable of domestic happiness? Will you be able to bring happiness to those around you? Because he was at that time dating a young woman by the name of Jenny, whom he married. Now, Jack, this is critical. Is the demon in you heavenly or Faustian? We have to talk about Faust. If you ask the average person who's listening today, this is what they're going to tell you. Well, Faust was a man in the medieval times. There were many legends about him. But basically, they all said that he sold his soul to the devil and ended up in hell. That's not the Faust. that was being read in their home. That Faust was the Faust written during the Enlightenment 200 years later by none other than Johann Wolfgang Goethe. Now, if you aren't German, you don't know how to pronounce his name. Most Americans say Goethe or whatever. That was a different Faust. Very briefly, what happened is the devil appeared And this man was sold his soul to the devil. But in the end, and the devil taught him how to seduce this young woman and so forth and led him into evil because he was making a deal with the devil and said, I'll give you my soul if you give me an endless number of pleasures. So you have all this array of pleasures. What makes this a different Faust is, in the end, Faust outwits the devil and goes to heaven. Because as he's dying, he realizes he's going to heaven because the young woman whom he seduced, who committed suicide, she was up there praying for him. Oh boy. So, here's the point. This Faust was a Faust that said, you can make an agreement with me. You can make an agreement with me. You can go into the whole business of making a pact, signed in blood, and still win in the end. Now, Marx was absolutely obsessed with Faust and with the devil. And by the way, later on his father wrote him, the last letter that his father wrote him, he said that he was giving birth to monsters because of the way in which he was losing and messing up his life. But here's the issue. Before he wrote the Communist Manifesto, along with Engels, He wrote a lot of poetry and it is dark and it is demonic. And I want everyone to listen. Look now, my blood dark sword shall stab unerringly within my soul. God neither knows or honors art. The hellish vapors rise within the brain till I go mad and my heart is utterly changed. Notice this, See the sword, the prince of darkness sold it to me, for he beats the time and gives the signs. Ever more boldly I play the dance of death, I must play darkly, I must play lightly, until my heart and my violin burst. But notice this, See the sword, the prince of darkness sold it to me, for he beats the time and gives the signs. Now, let's read some other poems, and I don't want to overdo this because there are plenty, but I want people to grasp the absolute darkness and the constant references to the devil. To the spirit realm. And even though I can't prove it, I think, boy, I'm saying this ahead of time. Do you remember when Satan came to Jesus and said, if you bow before me, I'll give you all the kingdoms? I think that's exactly what Marx did. He bowed before him. and gave him the kingdoms. Listen to this. With disdain, I will throw down my gauntlet, full in face of the world, and see the collapse of this pygmy giant, whose fall will not stifle my ardor. Then I will wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world, and giving my words an act of force, I will feel equal to the creator. Wow. Imagine that. I'll give you one more, though there are many like this. What you just read, someone could right now turn to Ezekiel chapter 28 and Isaiah chapter 14. Yeah, of course. And of course, the opening throws of Matthew's gospel and Luke, and hear that same pitch where the enemy says, I am this one offering you all these things. Now, one more poem, and we could go on because there are others. I'll just, because of lack of time, I'll just read four lines. Thus heaven have I forfeited, I know full well, my soul once true to God is chosen for hell. When I read that, it just stopped my mind in my tracks. I mean, that gave me chills. Let me read it again. Thus heaven have I forfeited, I know full well, my soul once true to God is chosen for hell. Let me ask you a question, please. Yeah. Didn't he claim to be an atheist? How can...he's not an atheist. Well, if I read Marx, he is constantly railing against God. I think that to the end, he believed in God, but absolutely hated him. Hated him. Because he talks about rebelling against God. Competition. He talks about, you know, trying to... avenge himself before God, all that. Now, I have to say this very quickly, because there are people who are listening to me right now who are going to say, Pastor Luther, this is unfair. Because what the literature says is this, all of the Marxists say, don't judge him by this because it was pre-1848 when the Manifesto was written. Yeah, how convenient. But is it possible that a man can write this kind of poetry and not be greatly influenced by Satan. Now, one of the things that I did is, I read a book by Wurmbrand, Richard Wurmbrand. Richard Wurmbrand. You remember, he was a Romanian pastor in jail for 14 years. He was invited to speak at this church and became ill and died. He lived about 45 miles north of here. Richard Wombrandt. He wrote the book Tortured for Christ. Not only that, he wrote a book I read entitled, Was Karl Marx a Satanist? Yes, I have that book. Yes, correct. Wow. Now, he gives a lot of evidence, though of course we don't know exactly Marx's relationship to Satan, but this is so critical. Wurmbrand, who was persecuted by the Marxists... Brutally. Brutally. He details how the people who did the persecution took delight in it. In other words, it's one thing for them to kill you, but they tortured you first. And they were so joyous in their torturing, they wanted to torment you as much as they could before you died. So Wurmbrand said, Communism is collective demon possession. Interesting. What else could inspire people to do that kind of thing and to be able to take delight in torture. I believe that. It has to be demonic. So there's a man who shows the demonism that Karl Marx had. I know I'm doing a lot of talking, but I'm going to just continue to talk. You're being interviewed. I want you to keep going. I want people to get this book. I just want a little bit of coffee to keep me awake. You have that, and I want people to get this book. So that's what we're doing right now. We're working hard. It's entitled Marx and Moody because they were contemporaries for 46 years. Now, what was the Gospel of Marx? The Gospel is in my book that I just had with me. It's actually just back of me here, called The Communist Manifesto. So I read the book very carefully. I read it more than once, line by line, and the things that I discovered there were absolutely fascinating. Marx and Engels said this, that the basic premise of Marxism, of socialism, of communism, was the destruction of anyone who had private property. That's the bottom line. He said, I can summarize this, that there should be no private property. So everything should be owned by the state. God says thou shalt not steal. Yeah, so what he needed was some criminals who were gonna go out there and steal, kill, destroy, without conscience, and to do this. Many people like to read the last part of the Communist Manifesto, which says this, workers of all lands unite. Mm-hmm. Workers of all lands unite. Okay, in fact, that's Honest Tombstone, where I was in London, as well as another quote that we don't have to get into here. But they don't read the preceding paragraph. The preceding paragraph says this, that communism, must be brought about by the forcible downfall and destruction of all society. Now, Marx did not believe that the present situation could be fixed. There were abuses. I mean, the industrialization, you know, was mistreating their workers, paying them as little as they possibly can. So there's nobody arguing about the fact that there were terrible abuses that were going on. But his view was this. It cannot be fixed. It has to be totally destroyed. And then on the rubble of the destruction of the past, because now that the now that the proletariat, now that the workers were in charge, they will just bring about such equality. Beautiful. Beautiful. In fact, life is going to be so wonderful. But mind you, you cannot have freedom of speech because what we're going to do is to also take away your freedoms because you're going to argue against this. And so along with that, there was the abolishment of freedom of speech. So the first thing that you have to think about when you think of Marxism is theft. That's right. And destruction and killing anyone who was part of the bourgeoisie, namely the other folks who were the owners. The people who had, yeah. All right, let me go to a second. Belief in God must be transferred to belief in the state. Oh, boy, that's... Marx says, no longer do you pray, give us this day our daily bread. You pray to the state. The state will give you your daily bread. That's the state we're living in right now, California. Yeah, they'll get... They'll take care of us. They'll take care of you. Pray to the grave. Right. Marx believed that, you know, religion was the opium of the people. It put them to sleep because people began to think, you know what? we're being persecuted and mistreated here, but we have heaven as our home. So what you have to do is to totally destroy that. Now, Marx was a materialist. He did not believe in the soul. He did not believe in eternity. There was no judgment to come. We were simply here. He was very impressed with Darwin. So belief in God, and the whole basis of his thesis is this. Men do evil because of oppression. So you have to do away with God. And then the next point is definitely destroying the family. Why? Because you see, the family was a unit of oppression. Men oppressed their wives. Parents oppressed their children and took them to church. And God was the ultimate oppressor. So the family had to be destroyed. In fact, Engels wrote a book about this. Engels did not believe in marriage. He had numerous affairs and so forth. And recently I saw a thing on television regarding the DSA, the Democratic Socialists of America. And they said that you don't need to be married. You can have any relationship that you want because The collective is going to take care of your children. And Marx also said, and Engels, I should say, also said this, and I have the quote in the book, of course, where he said that what you have to do is to realize that children should be taken from their parents as soon as they can live without their mothers. So the destruction of the family was very, very important because they knew that it would be that. Well... We have to hurry on here. Truth and laws are socially constructed. What Marx says is this, there are supposed eternal truths, like freedom, and he lists a number of them. Did he actually mention them as eternal, even though he doesn't believe in the spirit realm? He said as eternal truths. What a contradiction. But he says that Marxism does away with these and abolishes all eternal truths. Because you see, he says that the laws and so forth are just made by the people in power. So there's no objective truth. So he did not believe in natural law where our founding fathers, for example, No, no. made the first and second amendments, the first and second amendments, because that's written in the human heart and there's no legislation that can make that go away. Yeah. He did not believe that. No, no, no, no. What you had to do is to abolish the family and truth and laws are socially constructed. Wow. Here's how it impacts America. Think of the students in university today. There's been a transfer. Truth used to be, when I went to university, something objective out there. We disagreed as to whether or not we were able to get to it, whether or not how we should get to it. Yeah, critical thinking. But it existed outside of us. Yeah. Now truth becomes within us. Yeah. So truth is my truth, your truth is your truth. Yeah, I feel this. Yeah, and whatever you feel like, that's your truth. And so what Marx would say is that there is indeed that kind of truth. And so laws and so forth can be brought into existence, but eventually, amazingly, you won't need them because everyone is going to live so happily and they will not need laws. They will live... What a demonic doctrine. Think about that. Doctrines of demons. You don't need God to renew you. You can reform yourself. Exactly. Now, one of the things I'm looking for here is a quotation, which I may not be able to find immediately, but I want to say this, that regarding the next point is this, which I've already emphasized. It can only be brought about by a violent... Yes. revolution, only by a violent revolution. Why? Because if you're going to say the state is going to own everything and all property owners have to be willing to give up what they own, obviously that's not going to go over very well. And so what you have is this tremendous desire to have the state own everything. And people will not fight anymore because there's nothing to fight over because we're always fighting over property and money. So if the state owns everything, we are going to get along just wonderfully. It wasn't too long ago. Maybe it was like the 2024 election cycle where we were hearing the verbiage that sounded like this. You'll be. Yeah, I know. There'll be a day when you won't own anything and you'll love it. Right. You'll be happy. Wow. Wow. Since you mentioned it, I found the quote that I wanted. Look at here. Marx believed that the world had to be remade and all work would be freely chosen. Now, this is not in the manifesto, but it is in a different document that he wrote. This makes it possible for me to do one thing today, another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I have in mind without ever becoming a hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic. Wow. Oh, okay. What a world, no wonder you can sell Marxism. So let me question you on that one. Everything that he said is not bad. It'd be great to go hunting or in California, surfing in the morning, snow skiing in the afternoon. Get a, I get that. In reality, if that is something that you actually would like to do, there's only one way to achieve those pleasures. And that's through capitalism, not Marxism. What he just said, his desire, That can only be achieved by capitalism. Yes, as a matter of fact. Leisure is an expression of wealth. Yeah. In other words, yeah, you can do that on vacation. But the point is this, that Marx was saying this was going to be universal. It was going to be a way of life. And all of your needs are met by the state. Every move that you make, it's all taken care of by the state. Next question. He believed in a borderless world. He believed in globalism. This also is in the manifesto because even in the very statement... That's going to be in your book? That quote right there? This is like breaking news today. And it's in his book? No More Borders. One World Community. In fact, in the manifesto, he talks about one bank... that would take care of all the transactions because nobody would really own anything. What people need to do is to understand that in socialism, you never work for yourself. You're always working for the state and the state dimmies out all of the blessings very, very easily and very fairly. And that's why I like to quote Winston Churchill and I'll see if I can pull this out of my mind. He said, the great curse of capitalism is the uneven distribution of blessings, but the great virtue of socialism is the equal distribution... Distribution. Distribution of misery. So everybody's equal. As a matter of fact, I heard somebody... You don't wallow in our sorrows together and like it. I heard somebody talk about how wonderful health care was in Cuba, not because it was good, it was terrible, but it was equal. That's the point. See, you have to understand that in Marxism, if anybody is rich, he's done it on the backs of the poor. And if you look at the world generally, the belief is that America is rich because other countries are poor and that we were built on the backs of poor countries and therefore we owe to other countries. Yeah, big lie. Yeah, because it's as if you cannot. And then, of course, you also have, as I mentioned, globalism and that central bank. Now, let's apply this just a little bit, okay? On two occasions, it was my privilege to preach in Albania. Albania has a fascinating history. As a matter of fact, it's mentioned in the New Testament, the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans, where he talks about one country that doesn't come to my mind immediately. It's actually in Albania. Albania is next to Greece. Makes sense. I mean, I'm looking at my globe, my map of the Adriatic or the Aegean. Right. Both of those, by the way, border Albania. Now, at first they became Catholic. Some of them were Orthodox after 1054, the big split. Some of them retained their Catholicism. That's why when they celebrate Easter, one part of the country celebrates it at a different day than the other. Like a week later. Yeah, and so forth. And then after that, you have Islam coming. Islam, of course, shut down many churches and took away so many freedoms. That's a whole separate story. A lot like what you're describing here. They thrive on disrupting a culture, and then they go and offer the solution, thereby taking over. Even now in Albania, Muslims actually encourage people to convert because they say, we'll give you a cow, we'll give you money, and so forth. But the point is this, that then... Mussolini came because they wanted the resources of Albania. So the Italians show up and they want to take over the country. And the people, of course, rebelled against that. And then, oh, praise God, here comes Russia. They will deliver us. Oh, Jack. Wow. Yeah. In Albania, There is a museum that you go into today that shows the persecution that the communists did, and it's enough to curl your hair. I mean, pastors and priests were tied together with chains. They were all shot together. They're uncovering graves even today of people who died that way. Now, here's the thing. In 1965, they declared that they were the first genuinely communist country. Genuinely... Albania. Albania. What made that so unique? Well, so unique is that was the official doctrine. How did that extend to the people? No religious references in funerals or in weddings. And catch this. If you have a child by a biblical name... That name has to be changed before the end of the year. You have a child by the name of Paul. That's a biblical name. You have to change the name. You have a daughter by the name of Ruth. Change the name because it's a biblical name. It said this, that our fight is constantly against God. In the book, of course, I quote it exactly. The God that we don't believe in. We're fighting constantly. that we are fighting constantly a God that we don't believe in. And so the persecution was unbelievable. Even today, Albania, even though there was a revolution in 1991 where the communist regime was thrown off, so to speak, it has never recovered. The economy, I have to tell you there... Yeah, when was the last time you bought something from Albania? I was having... coffee with the Secretary of the State of, of Albania, Secretary of State. And in the, in the restaurant, there came a man, and the Secretary said, that man is running for mayor of this city. So when I was finished with the Secretary of State, I went over to that man, and I said, can you tell me what your greatest problem is here, in your city. You know what he said? The greatest problem is that people are still using coal to burn and it is hurting their environment. Oh, of course. It's the environment. It's the environment. Poverty all over. Yeah. People begging. But the greatest problem is they still use wood-burning stoves. Yeah, that's the big problem. That's the big problem. Does that sound familiar? Friends, listen, does that sound familiar in America? Yeah. How the Democrat Party in the United States has this incredible compassion for the environment, but they're okay leaving people homeless, hooked on drugs, fentanyl, dying in our streets, but let's minimize our carbon footprint. Yeah, and that's exactly where we come to. Now, to everyone who's listening, and I'm saying this with a heavy heart, every once in a while we come across people who say politics doesn't matter. Well, when I meet somebody like that, I said, would you prefer to live in North Korea or South Korea? Exactly. What would be your choice? Yeah, pick. But let's look at Albania. Wow. Did you know that the churches and the mosques, for that sake, were so destroyed and closed when the communists were in power that I was told growing up there probably are no Christians at all in Albania. Do you know how bad things were? Missionaries put New Testaments into plastic bags and sent them down the river hoping that some Christian would pick them up. Because if you were found with a Bible, you were put to death. And when I was there, I was preaching in a church where an old woman was there with a Bible... Can I ask you what year that was when you were preaching? Yeah, that would have been 19... Excuse me, not 19, 2023 I think it was. Very recently. Oh my goodness. Now, they have freedom now. As a matter of fact, the second time I was there, I preached to 1800 people in a service in which I preached one minute after you die. So, the church has begun to grow after that because now they had a degree of freedom. Good government cannot save us, but bad government can shut us down. Exactly. I mean, I hate to say it so clearly, but that's... It's crystal clear. It's crystal clear. So, in this church, there was a woman... who came and she had a Bible and she said, this Bible survived the revolution. She said, we met silently in our home, just a few people, and this was the Bible. So I had my picture taken with her with the Bible. And I thought that's one of the most precious pictures I've ever had taken, where I saw and held in my own hands the Bible that survived the revolution. Now, all that to say, that that's communism applied. That's communism applied, totally applied. And as a result, of course, you have those terrible things. Now, once again, Jack, I'm continuing to talk here a lot. Feel free to interrupt me or ask a question, but I want to talk about Marxism in America. Can I do that? Yeah, in fact, can you just, yes, before you do, It's actually a segue to what you're going to say then. You just mentioned the Marxism applied. In my mind, before something is applied, it's theoretical. If I'm working in a laboratory, it's theoretical on the chalkboard until we do it. So in America, we have been flirting with the theory of socialism and What concerns me is some time ago, how long has it been, nine months ago or something, New York? New York voted in a Muslim socialist, right? That's no longer theory. Now it's applied. So America, yes. But I have to say this, that I've heard that this vote was only the beginning. This is not the end. There's more to be conquered. Absolutely. That's Islam. There's more now to be conquered. That's jihad. We have to see how that all is going to turn out. Yep. All right. So, Gramsci, you've probably heard of him. He was in prison. Actually, Mussolini put him in prison. Gramsci was a... ardent Marxist and very brilliant. And Mussolini put him in prison because we have to distinguish fascism and communism. Fascism is very nationalistic, whereas communism was class distinctions. That was what Marx was very important about. And Gramsci knew that the kind of revolution that happened in Russia was not a good advertisement for Marxism. So what he came up with, and there's a quotation, which is in my book, where I talk about the fact that he said we have to apply Marxism through the long march through the institutions. That's why we have today cultural Marxism. There you go. So cultural Marxism, and this is what Gramsci said. He said that there were two hindrances to communism in America. First of all, he thought that all the workers would rise up and capture the factories and stuff, but it didn't happen. There are two things that hinder them. Number one is Christianity, because Christianity blinds people to the beauties of communism. One was Christianity and the other was capitalism. So he said what we have to do is to destroy the culture first, and then the economic revolution will take place later. So you have it at Columbia University. You've heard of the Frankfurt School in Germany. Absolutely. Columbia University. You have these Marxists. Same in Heidelberg. Yeah, right. Marxists meeting together. And what they began to do is to say, how can we apply Marxism step by step, incrementally, so that people will eventually see its beauty and accept it without an awful revolution? Yeah. All right, come to my city of Chicago. Here we have a man by the name of Saul Alinsky who died in 19... Excuse me, the time should come to my... 1970-something. He looks about... Terrible. ...and asks the question, how can Marxism be applied to the issue of race? Now, through the providence of God, and I attribute this to God, I happened to meet one of Saul Olenski's workers. Was it Hillary Clinton? No. Sorry, I had to say that. She studied him though. She was a master of his work. And this is what he told me. He said, we had good plans to help the under-resourced communities of Chicago. And Saul Alinsky blocked them because he says our purpose is not to solve problems. It is to use problems. In Chicago, it was uttered a different way. Same doctrine. Rahm Emanuel said, never let a crisis be wasted. Yes. Yes. So here's what you have. Now, when I came to Moody Church in 1980, the great emphasis was on racial reconciliation. We did all that we could. Of course, Moody Church, even now today, has people from about 75 different countries of origin. Beautiful. And we rejoice in the fact that we are- Absolutely, it's like heaven. You know, you think about heaven where every- Kendra, tribe, tongue, and nation. Yeah, amen. Hallelujah. So that was it. Then critical race theory came along. And suddenly you have rising up this antagonism, deliberately intended to keep the races apart, deliberately intended to continue to blame and shame. Instead of meeting at the foot of the cross and asking ourselves, what can we do to make things better? Because there are disparities. We no longer ask that. Because now suddenly you have the blaming and the shaming and the shaming. with the intention of never bringing about a real reconciliation. Oh, Jack, there's just so much to say, but I have to say this. People have to buy your book to get all that wants to be said. It's all in there entitled Marx and Moody, Two Contemporaries, Two Gospels, and Two Tombstones. Don't let me finish this interview without telling you what is on the tombstone of Moody. Yes. Okay. I'll remind myself. All right. Now, let's look at the Bible. What's the Bible answer to the different races? Exactly. I'm quoting here from the fourth chapter of the book of Colossians. In Christ, there's neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, Scythian, barbarian... but all are one in Christ. Okay. That doesn't mean that Jews become Greeks and Greeks become Jews or barbarians become Scythians. But what does it mean that there's a transcendent unity that we should show and we should work toward? So I'm going to simply say in one sentence, all that I'm going to say about this in this context, critical race theory tears apart everything that Jesus died to bring together. Exactly fact. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's intended... to never solve the problem, but to keep the pot boiling, so to speak. All right, so you have, of course, individuality is lost in the midst of all of this because Marx said we have to think in terms of classes. If you're part of the bourgeoisie, namely the rulers, you're all evil. If you're part of the proletariat... You are just so wonderful. If you took over, there'd be no corruption. Think in terms of classes. So think in terms of how do we divide people, not how do we bring them together. And so one of the things we have to realize is use diversity to divide and to destroy. And that, I think, is very important. And there are other consequences that have to do with Marxism. And I don't want to blame Marx for everything, because all of us know because of sinfulness, some of these things might have come about. But when you read the literature, you discover that there are always those roots. Let's see one another as antagonists rather than trying to work together. And let's put people into one box. If you have the color of the skin that's this, you belong in that box. If not, you belong in that one. And if you believe in God, the existence of God, if you believe in the scriptures, then you go, you look beyond the physical and you see that there's There's the puppeteers, so to speak. And Jesus, it's interesting. Jesus said you can either serve God or mammon, mammon being the deity of wealth and prosperity. It's interesting that socialism and Marxism, those that are in control are actually pursuing ownership. They would never admit that. Oh, of course. But they will set the masses up So that the few can live in total, absolute opulence. Oh, yeah. And then Jesus is the problem because he's competition to them. I want to say also, I wasn't planning to say this, but with you, there's all kinds of things I didn't plan to say. This is true. Jesus was not a socialist. Do you remember how he gave the parable in which one person was given one talent, another two, and another five, and so forth? Yep. Jesus didn't think that there was going to be equity. That's right. We should work toward the poor. We should work toward all those. I recognize that. He also said, though, because this world's fallen, the poor you will have with you always. It doesn't mean that they're going to go away. It means that there's always going to be someone poor. Lift them up. Help them out. Feed them. Find them a job. Get their feet on a rock and move. I don't know if we have time to talk about immigration, but... Yeah, let's do. Let's do. What we have to do is to understand two spheres. The symbol of the church is the cross. The symbol of the state is the sword. And the sword, according to Romans, is there. Why? Why? Number one, to punish evil doers and to protect those who do good. And you cannot take the morality, the individual morality of a person as a Christian and apply it. You know, I heard a pastor saying, God bless him. Just like the Bible says, whosoever will may come, we should say that about America, whosoever will may come. Should the state be run by, should the state forgive 70 times 7? Oh, boy. Do you see that? The state has a thing now. Wouldn't you fail your seminary course if you applied to? interpretation to scripture that way? I hope so. I'm sure hope so. I don't know. I don't know. So I know that there's lots there that we could unpack and there may be differences. And so we speak about these things, I trust, with a great deal of humility. Well, yes. But, you know, if you lock your door at night... That's a border. Yeah. If you believe in open borders, don't lock your door at night. Have a sign on it that says, Welcome. Open house. Okay. Scripture also teaches if a man does not work, neither shall he eat. And of course, we know that some can't work because of disabilities or they may be unemployed or whatever. And we want to help them. You know, the good Samaritan, God bless him. He didn't say to this man, are you here legally or illegally? You know, what is your nationality? He saw somebody to help. And as Christians, we want to help anyone that we can help. That's right. Amen. Let's talk about democratic socialism. DSA, Democratic Socialism of America. Always remember that socialism says, we are going to take care of the economy. We are going to grasp the economy. Okay. So what you're going to do is you're going to use price controls. You know, there's a cap on rent. How many people are going to invest in rental property? Not many. How many people are going to build new houses? New York, for example, already has a housing shortage. That's true. Yeah, the builders are leaving. Yeah. Of course. So what you have is, I love this quote, and I do have it in my book, the dream is free, the hustle is paid separately. So what you have is all the slogans about we're going to do this, we're going to do that, and we're going to do that. And what you're going to be ending with is a handful of meaningless slogans. Because all of the structure that brought about prosperity is going to be destroyed under a real socialist state. Can I ask you this question? I... I was either reading or I saw this some time ago, but it's going to lead up to my question. There were a lot of socialists and Marxists that used words like hope and change and all that kind of stuff. What do you think, looking back now historically, when Barack Obama stood in that stage five or six days before the election, And he said, we're just five days away from fundamentally changing America. We all knew that sounded wrong. I mean, that's like me asking Lisa to marry me. But my goal is to fundamentally change you, Lisa, rather than accept you as you are. What do you think was there some... Because he was a student of... Saul Zelensky, Olensky as well. What do you think, just your opinion, what do you think he meant by, we're just five days away from fundamentally changing America, being a disciple of... Well, I think he was thinking about beginning the process toward a more socialist America. I don't know what else he could have been thinking about. And I do know this, that in the process, of course, It never works out like you think it's going to work out. But what we need to do is to realize this. The radical left in America, and I'm not going to necessarily comment on Barack Obama, but the radical left in America does not believe that America can be fixed. It has to be destroyed. The whole fundamental issue of capitalism needs to be destroyed. And on top of the rubble, We will build a brand new kind of America that will be free of all disparities, that will give equality to everyone, that will not be subject to the rich because the rich will pay their fair share. And that'll happen. And of course, what we have to realize is that ultimately, that destroys everything. You know, even as I'm talking to you, Jack, there's so much in my book that I have left out. I was thinking of the fact that Karl Marx's mother, Karl Marx was constantly hitting on his parents for money. Constantly. And his father got so exasperated, he wrote to him and said, you know, you are giving birth to monsters. Okay, because Carl was... By his ideology. By his ideology and his personal life. Wow. And then she said that, you know, I wish he would earn some capital rather than just writing about it. Karl Marx's mom said that. Yeah. And then in one letter he said, if you don't give me money and tear up the IOUs, I might be arrested. And she didn't budge. She didn't give money. Good for her. So, a point to be made is this, that as you look at his life, it was a mess. And I say this with a heavy heart. He had six children. And he said to Engels, he wrote to Engels and says, every day my wife Jenny wishes that she and the children were safely in the grave. And he said, I don't blame her because of the kind of life that they lived. But think of this. Oh, my goodness. If you're an atheist, if you're a real atheist, lying in the grave is a great plus. That's right. Because you're no longer conscious about anything. Rest in peace, yeah? Rest in peace. Interesting. And so, and I hate to mention this because we know Christian parents who have kids who really stray from the Lord, but his two oldest daughters... One by the name of Eleanor, she and her husband made a pact that they would commit suicide together. So her husband gave her poison and promised her that he would do the same, but he didn't. So he lived the next day and then was able to get all of her inheritance. And the other one who actually died in... In 1911, I think it was, she also made a pact with her husband to commit suicide. And all that, of course, goes back to, you know, the pact that Marx was constantly talking about. Yes. Namely, the pact with the devil. And that dark writing. Okay, we need to start wrapping this up. The tombstones. Oh, yeah, the tombstones. All right. The title of my book is Marx and Moody. On Marx's tombstone are the words, workers of all lands unite. And then underneath is a quote I frequently used where he says, up until now, philosophy has only interpreted the world. The point, however, is how to change it because he intended to change the world and he did. He still rules much of the world from his grave. But now let's go to Moody. Moody is buried in Massachusetts. He's buried in Northfield. And Jack, it'd be a great... Have you been there? No, I can't believe I missed that. Yeah, it's on top of a hill. It's called Round Top. Two big gravestones. On his wife, Emma, is written, They shall see his face. and they shall reign with Him forever and ever." Isn't that beautiful? Beautiful. Revelation. And on Marx's tombstone are these words, a snatch of a verse that he loved very, very well. The world passes away and all of its lusts, but he who does the will of God abides forever. So, how do you contrast those two tombstones? And I end the book talking about the tombstones, talking about what they got, what Marx got wrong, what Moody got right, two different eternities, two different destinies, and then challenging people. And you're right, we have to wrap this up. What would we like to have on our tombstone? What do we want to leave behind? What kind of a life do we want to live so that people look back on our lives and see how we honored Christ and inspired people toward righteousness and love of Christ. That's the thing I want to leave. And I'm sorry, but I know we have to wrap it up, but I have to say one other thing. Please. To all parents, when Karl Marx did what he did. His parents were already dead by the time he became famous, even though he had written his manifesto while they were still living, I think. They did not know who they were raising. They didn't know. And when Moody's family, his parents, his dad was an alcoholic and died when Moody was about eight years old. He and Betts, Betts was the mother of, They had no idea that they were going to raise up an evangelist that would lead millions of people to Jesus Christ. And here's the bottom line. Parents, parent your children well. You have no idea whom you are raising. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, the bottom line is, take words from Moody, the world passes away in all of its lusts, But he who does the will of God abides forever. And let that be the way we close this podcast. Yeah. Amen. The book is available everywhere. Yes. It's entitled Marks and Moody. Two Contemporaries, Two Gospels, Two Gravestones, and One Choice. And people can find out what that choice is by reading the book. I would like to throw this out your way before we wrap this up. I can't wait to read it because my question is this. I want to read it through the eyes of, could this very well become a documentary? Could this book that you've written, because it's so timely, we're living it, and if we don't learn from it, If we don't learn from the book, which invites us to go look at history, if we erase our history because of ignorance, we are going to embrace these lies of the devil. That's why he doesn't give up on them. He gets miles out of them. And so your book is going to be a tool. I would love to see it. So many good books are being put into documentary form these days. This would be a champion book. That would be a wonderful challenge. So I'll... End this by saying there is a choice. God has made it very clear in Scripture, choose today whom you'll serve. And in your life, there are so many things maybe you're pursuing, trying to think that if you just get this thing or that thing, that you'll be complete, you'll be made whole. But that's not the answer. You can go to Bel Air or Beverly Hills or Brentwood in Hollywood, And see billionaires that are very, very unhappy because they're soulless. They're empty on the inside. They have not yet made the right choice. Friend, listen, it's not what you acquire in this life that makes your life meaningful. It's who you are on the inside. And only Jesus Christ knows what you're capable of. He made you. He gave you life. The problem is, He's not going to bend your arm to get into the kingdom of heaven. He invites you, come and follow me. And if you're tired of your life, if you want to change, how about this? If you want a new life, that's what He does. He gives you a new life. There's really one choice that will lead you into the presence of God forever. And that's, coming to Christ, understanding that he died on the cross for your sins, he rose again from the dead three days later, that he was God incarnate. A good man could not die for us. One greater than us had to come, and he came. And he loves you, and you need to meet him. If you would just be so honest with yourself and get alone after this program and say, God, if you're out there, if you're real, will you reveal yourself to me? I would like to know if I can have a new life. Jesus, my friend, has purchased a new life for you. I encourage you. Take him up on the offer. He won't bend your arm, but he'll invite you to come. And together, Dr. Erwin Lutzer and myself, we invite you to come to the foot of the cross, come to Jesus Christ. God bless you guys until next time.