How Prophecy Saves

Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs Podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints, and impact our culture. Hey you guys, we are sitting down today. Your mind is going to be blown up. Listen, we planned on 30 minutes. It's going to be a little longer. Why? Because we could not stop talking about this topic and I think you're going to love it. So stay tuned. You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast. Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us, that's like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs. We're everybody very excited about today's podcast and for good reason. In fact, listen, this podcast is a wee little representation of the podcast that our two guests are able to achieve by God's grace. I mean, these guys rock the world for truth when it comes to not only biblical knowledge and scriptural teaching, but something that I love with all of my heart. In fact, it's this doctrine of the Bible that God used to lead me to a saving knowledge of Jesus and that is Bible prophecy. Otherwise known as eschatology. And with us, we have these two best-selling authors and I love these guys. Todd Hampson, you're going to be exposed to a little bit of his talent. Not only in his ability of speaking and writing, but of illustration, which I have a cartoon mind. I love it. I love it. And Jeff Kinley, who we've had the opportunity to have in Jeff Kinley with us before, but just a tremendous, tremendous duo of truth needed so much in these days because Bible prophecy, if you don't mind me putting it this way, Bible prophecy is being molested in the hands of those who occupy the pulpit today. And I think that's a shame because the Bible says in Revelation 19 verse 10 that Jesus himself is the spirit of prophecy. That is that God and the God of the Bible reveals his truth to us. And some of that truth is advanced knowledge, which we're going to talk about proves the existence of God. So you guys welcome, welcome to our podcast and let's just dive in. First of all, I got to ask you, Todd, how everybody can go and see your books and how they're themed out in this way. But let me into your mind. I want to know. I don't tell anybody this, but for me, people will say, Jack, you've got such a great memory. You've always remembered people's names. I do. But when I do remember people's names, but the way the way that I remember is not, it's not so, it's not so maybe complimentary because if I meet somebody, immediately my cartoon mind, I see them. What feature pops? Yes, that's Mike. That's Mike with the long neck. Yes, Mike, the giraffe. It works and I meet him three years later. Hey, Mike, how are you? How'd you remember my name? And I never can say it's because you look like a giraffe. I could never say that. But when I read stuff like this, you might say, Jackie, you kidding me? Is this for kids? Hey, there's more doctrine in this book that looks like a cartoon book than most churches you're going to get out of any pulpit in these days. So I love the way that you think and tell us, how is it that you came up with this? I really want to know. I have to know. You bet. Y'all give you the abbreviated version is I grew up completely unchurched. Didn't know anything about the Bible. It's probably a good thing. Yeah, well, the Lord definitely used it. And when I was 13, through a weird set of circumstances, the Lord led me to a Christian school, heard about fulfilled Bible prophecy because I believe the Bible was a book of fairy tales. I believe that an evolution hung on yards, but the one thing I couldn't explain away was fulfilled Bible prophecy. And that's what broke down the barriers and eventually led to my salvation. And I was also an artist, even as a kid, I was drawing all the time and I have a company called Tim Bucktoons where we produce animation. Tim Bucktoons? TimBucktoons.com. Yeah. TimBucktoons.com. Yeah. So we produce a lot of cartoons and stuff for ministries and that sort of thing. So that's my background before I started doing the book stuff. So I've always been a visual learner and developing IPs and stuff with characters. And I wanted to produce a book that put handles on Bible prophecy for non-church people and Christians who maybe are intimidated by it or confused by it and poke fun at it a little bit. Let's have some fun and have some funny illustrations. And also what I found is a lot of people are like me, visual learners, that when you see something, it draws you into the text, but also it helps remember like like like the giraffe neck. It helps you remember the content. Yeah. And that's kind of the thought behind it. I love that because when I got saved, I got saved on a Monday night, June 20th, 1977. It was a Monday night. And by the end of the week, not knowing what to do with the Bible because they gave you a Bible. I didn't know what which end was up. But the first book of the Bible I read was the book of Revelation. And for me in my mind, I thought, this is amazing. You know, why isn't this a movie? Why? You know, but I could see these things in my head, a dragon rising up out of the scene. It was like, oh my gosh, why doesn't everybody read the Bible? And I'm really grateful that I cut my teeth on the Bible in the book of Revelation because to be honest with you, everything after that was very much downhill in the sense that explainable. That makes sense to me. Yeah. That makes sense to me. So yeah, absolutely amazing. So Jeff, you are so busy. Did I read this right somewhere? Did I read that you that you have authored? Is it some 40 books? I think so. Or more than that. More than that. It's just 40. There's 40 books. And then another 12 books and this and that. You've got, you know, a million, was it a weekly million download podcast going on? You topped 1% of all podcasts in America. Is that both of you guys together? The prophecy pros. Can you tell the people the address of that? Yeah. Prophecyproz.com. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, everybody, you got to do that. You got to, you got to, you get a prophecy pros podcast.com. There you go. Thanks. Or the prophecy pros.com. Either one easy enough. Yeah. Yeah. So Jeff, um, this, is this your latest or is this what just came out? Explain it. Yeah. What drives this? Oh, man, I tell you, I was so excited about I've written books on Revelation and Bible prophecy and stuff, but I was thinking about what about Jesus own words? So I said to my wife in a crazy moment, I said, sweetheart, I think I'm supposed to write this book, but I think I'm supposed to fly to Jerusalem and do research right there on the Mount of Olives, this all of it discourse. And my wife's always been one of these put wind to my sales thing. She said, oh, you need to go for that immediately. So I got on a plane in New Year's Eve, flew to Tel Aviv, took a taxi and had a private guide, spent a whole week just researching, just feeling the dust and the dirt. What you just want to do. I'm almost crying. I'm almost crying right now because I know what you're, I have filled with what I'm doing. Yeah, you've been there. You just like have to just take it in. Yeah. And you're sitting on the Mount of Olives and you're seeing the exact panorama that Christ saw. And because that's what the Mount of Olives is all about, all of it discourse is seeing the end times through the eyes of Jesus himself. Ah, so good. People get these books, get these books and make sure you read them. I see that the publisher, good friend of ours as well, the harvest house, the wonderful people there at harvest house. Okay, so let's dive into this. So the Ukraine, Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, where do we stop? Turkey, Syria for now, and it's whatever it is, Iraq, we got all these areas that are so to speak on fire. Recently, obviously, recently, the world, and I say the world without exaggeration, the world experienced the election or re-election of a guy by the name of Donald Trump. And the almost immediate shock wave in the international world because all that was being played out here in the dark in America. I mean, at night time, I mean, PM hours. Well, much of the world was living that day in the sunshine. And now we're seeing information coming from places in the world, from Paris to Tehran, to Beijing, where it Moscow, where people were hearing the news being reported. And they stopped. They stopped in their tracks. Donald Trump was elected again. And what's, I find that so amazing is prior to the election, Iran, the clergy in Iran, they were telling their congregants and their mosque, go contact your American friends and tell them the vote for Kamala Harris. And post-election data shows that they did not do that. In fact, the Muslim vote. Now, all things, I mean, I'm still trying to process that. The Muslim vote in America broke heavily for Trump. That said, that was a shock wave in the world. And here's my question to you guys, with what just happened in this election. From your biblical vantage point, if you're Iran, now we all know about Iran Persia in the Bible. What are they thinking right now? If we were assuming that we might be seeing the formation of Ezekiel 38 maybe in the last recent times, what's happened now? Are they going to maybe act quicker before Trump's inaugurated or not at all? What's your gut feel about Persia or otherwise known to us in our day as Iran? What's up? I think back, I'm old enough to remember the Reagan election. Same here. You remember back when he was elected, right? Well, it was yesterday. Yeah, and he's going to look, you better release our hostages right now. And because under Carter, they wouldn't release them, but all of a sudden, they saw this strong man coming, this presence coming in, the hostages got released. I see a similar thing with Trump. I think there's going to be some hesitation, their elites should be, because Iran's been very bold. They've been very braggadocious of their tax against Israel. So two things to me is, number one, Trump represents that pro-Israel stance. So now, as the past couple of years, we've not had a real backing of Israel, strong backing, strong alliance. Now here comes Trump. So they've got to put that into their mix. And the second thing is, is in terms of globalism, because you remember a couple of years ago, I mean, here we go, where COVID hit and all of a sudden the world's, oh, we got to become one. We can have a global mass here. But someone's standing in the way. And here comes the election. And boom, he's out. The one national nationalist among the group was Trump. So he's out, Biden's in, he's in lockstep with the WF and that type of thing. But now Trump's back in. So it'll be interesting to see geopolitically. And as you said, you talk about shockwaves. It's a tectonic shift in geopolitics. Exactly. I agree 100 percent. Tectonic shift is a great analogy, because that's what I'm thinking is the puzzle pieces are shifting around a little bit. All the nations you mentioned have some kind of tieback directly to Israel. So Israel is rising as the neon sign that we're in the end times. All eyes on Israel, no matter what news you connect with, somehow some way it traces back to Israel right now. And I think with what's that? What a coincidence. Yeah, what a coincidence. Yeah, the center of the world, the center of Bible prophecy. I think Tom will tell you, either you wonder if they're going to fast track things and make a move or if they're like, oh, okay, well, we didn't think he was going to get in. Now we got to take our time and be a little more strategic. And so does that speed prophecy up or does it slow it down a little bit? I'm not sure. Yeah. So listen, everybody, we're just talking here right now. So none of this is thus say at the Lord or thus say Jeff or Jack or Todd. But we're just bringing you in on this coffee table talk, so to speak. So I had to say that to preface with what I'm about to say right now. So if I remember correctly, the book of Ezekiel tells us that Israel is going to be dwelling in its own land. They're there. They're going to be tilling the land. It's going to be productive. The vineyards, they got all that not to be not to confuse it with the millennium or anything like that. We're talking about the dry bones being brought back to life brought into their land and now we're in Ezekiel 38. And it tells us there that while they are living in safety and if I remember right, that Hebrew word is an assumed piece. It's not the Hebrew word that means an actual piece like Jesus is the Prince of peace. It's not the Shalom. They're not experiencing the Shalom of God. They're experiencing an assumed piece. So it could be that we're at a time right now. Let's say that Iran doesn't move. Jeff with what you just said totally consistent. I believe you know, and I don't want to lose my train of thought here, but what you just said, I hate, gosh, I hate to be so blunt about it, but people in the Middle East will say, you're right. And it's this, that world over there, they don't respond unless it's power. It's been that way for thousands and thousands of years. It's the language they even respect it. Even if it's their enemy, they respect that. Having said that, they may very well just recoil back. Israel may be sensing, oh wow, look at that. Let's let our guard down. Let's relax. Let's and let's get our economy up and going again because man, there's no more saber-addling coming out of Gaza. Hezbollah has been dealt with. Iran has been pushed back in the corner and everything has gotten real common nice. Isn't this a great time? Our economy is booming. Wouldn't it be something that the election that we just saw on in God's, we're just speculating in God's plan is I'm going to put Trump in for many reasons. One of them is how about I'm moving this chest piece right here. Israel is going to feel really safe after all he is the guy that relocated the embassy to Jerusalem. And Israel's going to be all really happy and content. And then all of a sudden we read about Ezekiel where suddenly the invading army comes in. What do you guys think about that? And don't agree with me. I need to be corrupted. Well, twice in that passage it says that it'll happen the latter days, this Gagme Gag invasion. Twice it says they're living securely in the land. They're living in unwalled cities. I think that's a euphemism to talk about the fact that they do feel safe. And we feel unthreatened. So with the strength moving in, as you said, they respect strength. With strength moving in, it seems to me that Israel could begin to let her guard now. Israel never completely lets her guard down. But to a certain extent she could begin to feel that sense of security, that sense of safety, that sense of protection from America as the big brother, if you will, then that could give them a sense of being low to sleep to where now those three primary nations among others, but with Russia, Iran, and Turkey, moving is now the time to strike when they're not least expecting. I mean, October 7th was a great example. You know, it's interesting because October 7th, what did the idea express right after October 7th, we had let our guard down, right? We should have had a presence there knowing that the big Nova Party was a big deal. But what's interesting right now Todd is that with the Trump election, this also means that the checkbook is going to be flowing more freely to Israel as well. That's been a problem under Biden. But that also is the sense of feeling peace. Israel may have all of the awesome experience of their technologies that they just used. We know that they went into Iran. What they do, they went into Iran, Syria, Iraq, and just busted, best did I should say, the S-300 systems. Russia, you know, their technology didn't see the Israelis coming or going. And that whole thing was a three hour long process, and they couldn't figure out where the Israelis were coming or going from. All of this, so it's possible, too, that Israel is kind of like, wow, look at what we've got. They couldn't even see us coming or going. And at the same time, they have internal coherency for the first time in a long time. Yeah. When they got attacked, they realized, okay, ideology doesn't matter. We need to stop bashing to an extent. Netanyahu and such and such and come together just to defend just so we can survive as a country. So it's unified them a little bit as well. And I think, too, another key detail with Ezekiel 36 and 37 is that if you look carefully, they come back into the land, but in unbelief. And I mentioned that because a lot of people say, well, what do you mean, they're back in, they're back in, they're going to be, they're not all Christians. No, they're mostly secular. Absolutely true. Because if you read it carefully, they come to their feet first, then later God breathes his breath in them. Todd, and I know you guys are different, not different. I mean, you guys are different. You guys are the exception to many Bible prophecy teachers who just don't bring up the fact that Israel is in the land. We've all been there. Maybe, maybe some of you have been there. I always have to warn our tours that once we land in Tel Aviv, we get everybody together, I always have to tell them, now you're going to be shocked to hear this, but people are going to announce to you that they're Jews, that they're Jewish, but they don't believe in God. And it just blows your mind. Yeah. It's like, wait, what are you doing here then? But what's amazing about that is, I'm so glad you said that because you, you don't hear that because there's a lot of replacement theology people, and there's a lot of really poorly taught pastors that, well, Israel's ill-legitimate nation because they don't believe in in Yeshua as Messiah. And so it's not legitimate. It's failing to recognize what Todd just said a moment ago. God said, I'm going to bring them back in unbelief. It's like walking out of the movie before the movies are aware. The story's not ended yet. I mean, God says there's more to come. And as you said, there's so many there that you say, how can they possibly be in that land and see God's protection, supernatural protection, and not believe? And we go to Romans and we see Romans 11 where it says a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles. There's the end of the story here. So by the way, this is totally unscripted, you guys. We have nothing reversed about this. You said the word until Paul's remarkable treaty, the book of Romans. Romans chapter nine deals with the Israel of the past. It's really simple. Romans 10 deals with the Israel of the now, and Romans 11 deals with the Israel of the future. And the point is, God's going to restore his people. He's promised. There will be a remnant God's word will not fail. Having said that is where we're sitting. We're not all that far from the LA area. When I say LA area, you got to remember we're talking the cities, 4 million people. The region is about 13 million people surrounding LA. So we're not all that far from there. And I say that to say this. When October 7th happened 2023, the following Sunday, there were people because we have a thing here at this church. If you're visiting for the first time, then we have all the new visitors sit up front. We reserve front seating for visitors. We just like that. And I was seeing these people who are clearly Jewish after October 7th. And I'm looking at them. And I, the Holy Spirit, in fact, if you go back and listen to messages around that time period, the Holy Spirit was possessing my soul to just step it up to provoke the Jew in front of me to the jealousy about our Messiah. So I just started, I mean, we're here on the book. We're going, we're in Romans. And we just started pulling up all of these wonderful prophetic Old Testament scriptures about who the Messiah is. And one after another was coming to the knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah. He's radical. One particular guy I'm not going to mention his name, but I had a chance to show him from the Old Testament that Jesus is the Messiah. And I don't think he believes it, but he's struggling with it because I know he got stumped. He's never quiet. He's Jewish. He's never quiet. And when I showed him, for example, Proverbs 30, verse 4, Proverbs. You didn't even think of Proverbs as a not a prophetic book, but you certainly wouldn't think of Proverbs as being a book of apologetics. In this sense, Proverbs 30, verse 4 says, Who is he who holds the fold, the seas and the fold of his robe and the wind and his fist? What is my name? And what is the name of my son, if you can tell me? Oh my gosh. And I shared that. And I do share that with my Jewish friends. And I shared this with this Jewish individual. And he looked at it in English, pulled out his phone, confident. You could tell. Confident that he was going to disprove me wrong. And he goes to his Hebrew Bible on his phone. And he looks at it. And this has been the response to many Jews I've shared this with. He's looked at it. And he says, it's very much stronger in the Hebrew for you. Wow. Wow. Oh my goodness. What about those dodgers? Yeah, you know, just like this. It's the hardness and part. The hardness. If the truth hit, you could see this vague moment. And then it was gone. But until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and do you wonder, do you kind of think maybe with what we're seeing after post October 7th, do you see maybe the veil starting to crack or or lift? Do you think sometimes going on? Do you think all the news is real front and center? Do you think God is using this right now to kind of let the let at least the three of us know? I'm about ready to go to work with my people. If nothing else, just seeing how he's protected them over and over again, just recently, it's almost like, I mean, every time they're attacked, you know, 1967, every war, they're supernaturally protected. But more so now, I mean, what, two ballistic missile attacks and nobody dies that's Jewish. No, that's insane. How does that happen? So they've got, he's got to be trying to get their attention and preserving them for his prophetic purposes as well. So I would think he's trying to wake people up and we often joke like, who's that last Gentile that needs to get down? Let's go find him or her or whoever it is. Except the Lord. I often think about sometimes I'll watch college football and maybe it's my team and we're getting just pounded on the turf or whatever. But some reason they come back and they win the game. I'll go back and watch the game again like the next day or the next week. Now, I'll see the fumble. I'll see the interception. I'll see the off-size, but I know we're still going to win this. And the thing that I see with Israel is that we have to keep in mind. There's a spiritual war going on. Yes. You know, and Daniel talks about Michael the Archangel watching over Israel. You don't think he's been busy in the past year. I think of this. So reality. I love that Jeff. Yeah. I mean, it's just a spiritual clash of forces. And you know, we don't always win every battle. That's right. We're going to win the war, but we don't win the battle. That's right. But what you mentioned here about the fullness of the Gentiles and you follow it up with a verse that we all take out of context where he says, for the gifts and the callings of God are irrevocable. That's Israel he's talking about. I've called Israel going to come back 100% guarantee. How do we know that? Because of past fulfill Bible props. Amen. That's right. Have you guys ever been asked this question? So, Pastor Jack or Jeff or Todd, how does a Jew get saved? Well, what? How does a Jew get saved? And now, I often play with the individual with respect. I'll say to them, well, let me ask before I want to be saved because you come, you know, I, you go to church here, are you saved? How did you get saved? Oh, I believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and rose again from the dead. I believe that he's the son of God. How do you know that? Well, Jesus said you must be born again, John chapter three. And I said, right on, are you a Jew? No, I'm a Gentile. Okay, fantastic. You just answer the question. Jesus gave the answer to a Jew. Nicodemus was not a Gentile, he was a Jew. How does a Jew get saved? Exactly how we get saved. But the message was given to the Jew first and then the Gentiles. Right. And so it's quite remarkable because there are those walking around saying, well, we get saved this way and the Jews get saved some other way. Right. And that's a big, that's a big note. It really is. Yeah, there's a, that dual covenant theology teaching where you don't even have to witness the Jewish people. They're automatically going in. Yeah. What a, what a life from hell. That is Satan. That's Satan because they need to hear the love of Christ and scripture tells us one in that Romans 11. One day, all Israel will be saved. I believe that's at the end of the tribulation. Yep. Agreed. Yeah. Jesus said, you will not see me again until you say, blessed is he. Oh, and they love Lord. Zechariah 12 tells us they will mourn for the one who is pierced. Yes. Yep. So it all links up. It's a puzzle pieces, but you put them together and it all tells the perfect story. And right now during the church age, it's Jew and Gentile together. Yeah. And that's what Paul was saying in the church. You know, we had the high privilege, several times mind you to have Dr. John Wolver here in this church. Oh wow. And always an, always an incredible blessing, of course. And Wolver pointed out numerous times, you know, this is the first time in 2000 years that Israel and the church have coexisted at the same time. That's how close we are to the end. Wow. Think about that. That's huge. That is huge. I had the privilege of studying under Wolver when I was a Dallas seminary. I mean, not only was he a giant and the faith. He was a giant man. He was, he was a huge guy, you know, falls into a car. You know, he was like, sit down as these legs arms. But yet at the same time, a humble servant of Christ, you know, it's very gracious and that type of thing. But the books he wrote primarily about Bible prophecy, Jack, they stood the test of time. They're going, they're not headline exegesis. They're not just looking at events in the world and trying to make sense out of them. Though he's going to the Bible first and then telling us what the Bible says. And then we look at our world and go, whoa, whoa, that's happening right now. I don't know. Yeah. By the way, I, I, I, I, if I get this wrong, but you can go to john wolford.com. He's got a, he's got a website that they still manage quite well. And it's W-A-L-O-O-R-D that I get. Yeah, W-A-L-V-O-R. Oh gosh, I forgot to. Yeah, wolver. Yeah, wolver. Yeah. So check him out. And if you see a book for his, this for sale, buy it. You don't have to think about it. Just buy it. I just heard a really cool story about wolver about how he got into prophecy, not in terms of study, but in, at DTS. His plan when he graduated from DTS was to go be a missionary. And was it, I think, Shaefer. It was still alive at the time, right? Shaefer said, I need somebody to teach eschatology. And he had been, and wolver had been praying. I think I'm supposed to be a missionary, but God show me if I'm not. So that one conversation pivoted him from the mission field to teaching prophecy. And now look at the millions of lives that he's touched through disseminary through students and stuff like that. So anyway, side note. No, no, no, it's a wonderful. And you guys are of this genre where these craftsmen of the word, you think of what you guys do, you think of what wolver, you think of Jayverna McGee, guys who are able to unpack things that are complex and make them so simple. McGee to the point where he almost makes them funny, but his solid and he's there, but he brings, I think how they say the cookies down on the lower shelf. So where are we right now, you guys in the timeline of things? I mean, of course, nobody knows the day or the hour, but move. I'm a big fan of Paul saying, but of that time and of that hour, you'll have no need that I should write into you. I take that as, and maybe I'm taking it wrong. I take that as, well, nobody knows the day or the hour. That's pretty crystal clear in the Bible. But concerning the times and the seasons, meaning to me, my understanding is, that's probably how the sons of Ishikar operated. Very good. They discerned the times and the seasons. They didn't have, they didn't walk around with a board sign on their chest, you know, on, you know, this day Jesus is coming. But when you look around and you see, for example, the Soviet Union, no longer the Soviet Union, it's back to being Russia. I think that's significant. Of course, you mentioned Israel back in the land, but you see other things too that could be Harbinger's where you see a leaderless Europe. I mean, let's be honest. Europe is leaderless. It's weird. It's almost like it's begging. Somebody to pop up. Absolutely. And it's kind of creepy. You know, in a good way, look, I voted for Trump. And I've had a couple conversations with Trump and that's all fine and dandy. I look, he's, you know, people get all been out of shape. How could you talk to the man, his tweets, or whatever? Come on. I talked to, I talked to anybody and I didn't vote for a pastor. I voted for a president. So the bottom line though is this is that, you see how, in that moment that it was obvious that Trump was going to win the election. And I mentioned it earlier, the glow began to respond. And the US stock market exploded. I mean, millionaires were made in minutes. After the day after the election, the point that I'm saying is that I told somebody, I don't know, it was Lisa, my wife or somebody near me, I said, you know, it's kind of creepy. It's kind of creepy because even other countries, Japan's, they had a parade and then prompt you parade immediately and they had a Trump. Oh my goodness. They did. And I'm thinking, okay, I know Trump's not the anti-Christ, but that's kind of weird. Yeah. Where the nations are so starving for leadership. Leadership. Yes. That they, they might pin and they went over the top, just even celebrating Trump. But it just goes, you show you how desperate. Yeah. And how close we are. Yeah. Because, you know, Todd, I use this term, Accelerates, you know, Accelerates and Bible profs. It seems like, you know, like you're going downhill, like birth pangs, Jesus talks about. But, you know, John said, first John to 18, my little children, it is the last hour. I love that. Now, if it's the last hour in the first century, Jack, where are we? Yeah. I mean, we're the two minute warning, we're in the last few seconds. And then in Hebrews 10, 25, 20, 60 says, don't forsake the assembling of yourselves together, but all the more encouraging. And let's call. Yeah. And let's COVID, then stop assembling. That was a COVID verse and of watching the tribulation. Yeah. But he ends it by saying, uh, he says encourage it one another. As you see the day approaching. Yeah. So that presumes that we can see the day approaching. Now, again, we don't know the day of the hour. But, but we're certainly in the season. If you think about like John 14 and the whole idea of the wedding motif and the bride never knew when the, he was going to come back and take her to the father's house. But she did have a general season. She knew it wasn't going to go on forever. That's right. He's going to come and usually it was a 12 month period for them. I am. I'm indebted to, um, Joe Foch, who's the pastor at Calvary Chapel in Philadelphia. He made me laugh a while back. He was talking. He was going through a prophetic book of the Bible. I don't remember where. And he said, you know, the world is in such a condition that if Jesus doesn't come back soon for the church, it's not going to be a surprise. Right. Yeah. Think about that statement. Yeah. It's, you know, you chuckled it first and then you realized, wait a minute, gosh. Well, then immediately in my heart is, is, well, I, Joe, I know what you, I know what you're saying. Sure. But while the spirit just spoke to my heart saying, that's the times in this season. Well, you know, we read about Christ's first coming. It says, he came in the fullness of time, which obviously, yeah. So I mean, obviously, that means God's prophetic timing. We have a time marker in Daniel 9 from the rebuilding to the coming of the Messiah. But also, I think that also means the condition, the stage had to be set. Yes. The Greek language had to be prolific in the area. So the gospel could go out. The Roman road system had to be in place. So the gospel could go out when they were persecuted. So I think it's the same thing with the second coming is we can, we see the day approaching. We're seeing the stage being set necessarily. We don't know the day of the hour. It could happen any moment. But we're watching the stage being set. At some point, the play is going to kick off. And the longer time goes on, the more we're seeing the stage being set. Yes. Man, you're blowing my mind right now because of what you said regarding the Roman road. You know, people thought back in those days, Rome built that road for commerce and to expand the kingdom. Pagan empire. Yeah, sure. God, basically, we must have been saying, go ahead and do that. But I got a better use for it. So you think about the internet. You think about the ability for us to communicate to the world instantaneously now. Well, it's all been used for evil. Well, that's not exactly true. But we look now in a post-COVID era where this is just one reporter, reporting to you, that I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this. COVID for us was the single most greatest thing God used in 35 years of our ministry to get the word of God out to more people instantaneously. Because all of a sudden, the world is shut down. I think I'm going to prove it now if you just follow me. The world was shut down. We just, when the world shut down, this staff showed up and we worked over time. We had, we set up, sets, women's ministry was streaming, with children's ministry streaming. We had, we were doing certain, never stopped. Okay. But the thing was this. We started reaching people and it was kind of shocking because we started to receive, we started to receive envelopes from people from around the world sending us cash to tithe. I didn't know the Bible and I took during COVID. So we're getting whatever Vietnamese money is. We're getting that. We're like, we can't use this, but it's very cute. The point was, we were starting to meet people. In the millions without that COVID thing, yeah, we would have missed it. But the punchline for me was the fact that during that brief period of time, we baptized 3,000 and 11 people down at the beach. And we, for a quite a season, had to do four Sunday services. So you're talking about 2,700 people per service. What? People were flocking to the truth. And God used that. I cannot help but believe that's part of God's end time reach. I was going to say, by the way, we were cheering you on from afar. We live in Georgia and Arkansas. It's pretty friendly to Christianity. We're not facing the same thing you guys were. We're like, that's what's, that's what's coming our way. These guys are on the front line right now. These, these pastors who are saying, no, we're keeping our doors open. We were cheering you guys on. And Jeff and I do these things called pop-up conferences. A one day conference. We actually did one for church. And I won't even say where it is. That you, that pipes your sermons in on Sunday morning. And they, they have church. They have an elderboard, but they don't have a teaching pastor. You're their teaching pastor. Oh my God. And we were there on a Saturday, did our whole conference. And then next Sunday, people were coming to hear you preach, man. That's right. That's crazy. But that's end time stuff. Yeah. It doesn't Daniel. Jeff, doesn't Daniel talk about something? Maybe chapter 12 ish about knowledge shall increase. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. He says in the last days that knowledge, many will run to and fro. Yeah. And what's interesting, there's kind of a dual application to that, if you will, because on the one sense, we get the fact that, that yes, I mean, we're, we're talking on the Roman road right now. We're, we're walking the Roman road. You're watching on the Roman road right now. So yes, the knowledge has increased. That's a Daniel chapter 12 and, and verse four. But for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and knowledge will increase. Well, it's what's, what's really interesting here is in that passage. And I do believe without a shout of a doubt that with the explosion of communication technology, that there's been more ability to get the word of God out. Yep. What's interesting, I did a deep dive on this passage and found it, this word knowledge here is a word that's in the Hebrew Bible, it's used 93 times to refer to the knowledge of God. And what's very interesting is this phrase go back and forth is used in the book of Amos to talk about the Jews searching the scriptures. Jesus said, you search the scriptures for in them, you think that you have eternal life, but they are, they are, they which do testify of me. Yep. And I taught and I both believe this is that in the last days, you're going to see a surge in people wanting to know more about this Bible prophecy thing. And for here, especially the Jews during the tribulation. Okay, check this out. This is not classified. This is not top secret stuff. We happen to have a wonderful relationship and a friendship with Secretary Mike Pompeo. And during the COVID, opening days of COVID, when Iran was shut down, the CIA, he said monitors, internet, satellite, everything, phones, computer, what you've, they got it. He said, we, you know, people talk about the cloud. He says, believe me, there's more than the cloud. And it's their job at the CIA at that time. Remember, he was CIA director and then he was then Trump had him over as Secretary of State, which is actually a great thing. So he brought that in on top of the fact, him being a military guy. But Pompeo, from his mouth to my ears, he said, when things were shut down immediately, our bells and whistles went off. We were being worn by our systems that there was a massive download of information like a funnel going into Iran. So this CIA, he said, we went to take a look at what they were doing. What's everybody doing? And this is awesome. This is giving chills, man. I think I know where you're going. Everybody was shut down. So listen, a lie works fine, I guess, until it's exposed. So people living in the Islamic lie of religion and false God, when no one's looking apparently and you're stuck in your house, you start searching. Pompeo said the data being downloaded were sermons. Bible search. You know that you know that that got questions done or or whatever. All of this Iran, Iran, he said it's set off. They're warning systems. There's something going on. They took a look and that was Bible. And he said there were people in the defense in the intelligence agency. Oh, what? It's nothing. They're just downloading Bible sermons and stuff. And Pompeo said, it just sent chills up my back that they were grabbing onto the Word of God. Tell me, Satan may, I'm just guessing, Satan may have caused COVID. God used it beautifully. Absolutely. As he always does. As he always does. That's the sovereign God who is over all of history. And he is orchestrating history towards his appointed end. It's a great narrative that God has planned out. Todd and I were talking earlier today. God is a master storyteller. He's the master artist. He's a master author. And the Bible and for those of us out there who may have not just really gotten into your Bible, this is where the truth lies. This is where everything is found. And the more you read the Bible, the more it reads you, the more you dig into it, the deeper you know God. So that's why that's why we're talking about this because this is what the Bible tells us. You know, you mentioned, you know, Satan caused an evil and then God flipping the script and using it for good. If you think about it, why does Satan keep going on? He keeps getting his tail kicked. He thought he had Jesus dead. Jesus rose from the dead. You know, he's tried all through history to destroy the Jewish people. They're still alive. He thought he had Hitler. He thought he had Hitler. Oh, I was watching. I'm glad you said that. I got goosebumps right now. On the plane right here, I was watching a documentary on World War II. And I've always we've always talked about how Hitler was a type of the anti-Christ. Satan was trying to fast track in times, a thousand-year Reich. He wanted to kill all the Jews. Well, I was listening to the conversation that he initially had with Mussolini. And Mussolini's, and this is going to give you goosebumps, Mussolini's exact words where he wanted to start a revived Roman Empire. And they said it two or three times in the documentary. I never connected those dots. That makes sense coming from Mussolini. He had two people in place in history. Either one could have become the anti-Christ. So Satan's showing his hand. And that shows you how close we are. Do you think this is just between us? Do you think? I mean, Satan's deceived, but he's not stupid. And his own lives have deceived him. That's what lies do. They deceive you. That's right. But he's not dumb. Do you think that he seeks to have an anti-Christ for every generation just in case? Without a lie. Do you think so? Without a doubt. Because he doesn't know. That's right. So he's got to have some guy ready, right? Got to have somebody on deck, waiting in the wing, ready to jump into the game, waiting in the wings, always. Why? Because he doesn't know God's chronological timetable. He has to have someone being groomed. Now, he doesn't know if this person is going to grow up and die. But at the same time, think about this, Jack, that even if the rapture doesn't happen for under the 30 years, he's alive now. Anti-Christ is alive. Can you imagine? Because he's not going to be a teenager when he comes on. He's got some sort of political cloud. He's going to have some something cool. Well, we know he's going to have this remarkable no doubt. It's demonically, satanically powered. But he's not going to be a little kid and he's probably not going to be some old man. Think of that. He's probably going to be that weird, I don't know what you call it, but he's got a little bit of gray. He's young enough, but he's GQ. You know, George Clooney kind of guy. That's with powers of persuasion, with oratory skills, with ability to deceive and then surrounding himself with people who also have the deception powers as well. So yeah, he's, I think he's going to be politically connected, but he'll come out of nowhere. He's the little horn. That's right. He's the 11th horn. He's the 11th horn. He'll overtake three. That's where you're going. That's what I was saying. The 11th horn will put down the three. That's right. So he comes out of nowhere. He's obscure, but satan is grooming him right now in our world today. And at some point, I believe after the rapture, there'll be some some gap period. We don't know how long it's going to be, but that chaos, we thought COVID was chaos. Wait till this chaos happens. And then incomes this man who says is our friend, Jamar Kel says, Mr. Fixit, he's going to come in and say, I've got a plan and the world will swoon over him like a 12 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert. Oh, yeah. Yikes. What do you think about, what do you think about the condition? I'll ask you first. What do you think about the condition tide of the church in the world and the church in America? Is there a difference? Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think that the church is going back to like it was first century. It's a remnant. It's raw. It's front line. It's the it's the the underground church in China and Iran that's rising up. Yep. It's the remnant of believers that we're seeing at these small and large churches all over the country and even in Canada. We did we had a couple pop up conferences in Canada. People hungry for the truth. Yeah. And they're more oppressed, way more oppressed in Canada and they're hungry for truth and they're seeing what we're seeing. But by and large, and I don't want to bash the entire church, and there's some great churches out there. But the awakening we're seeing in the remnant believers wanting deep truth being taught is refreshing because it hasn't been in the church by and large. A lot of churches for 20 or 30 years now. It's it's become a little bit softball, fluff, surface level. That's given them, you know, attract the whole world to come in and we don't want to say anything that offends them or challenges them. Well, how do they get saved? Because I had to have my world wrecked and realize I was a sinner before came to Christ. So, so I think it's it lines up with the end times church. There's a there's a falling away. There's a drifting away from big words orthodoxy and orthopraxy. What the Bible says to do and believe, believing that this is the inspired inherent word of God. That that's going out the window with with a lot of churches right now. So I don't want to be, you know, chicken little, the skies falling, but I think it I think we are seeing the end times church the falling away. And the refreshing side, the remnant believers rising up the churches that stayed open during COVID that are boldly talking about things that are political that sway into biblical, you know, not be political to be political, but to have the courage to talk about issues that may be political because they're in the Bible. Why can't the word of God speak to a political issue? Well, I stay out of politics. Good right on. But that doesn't mean and I do mean this in a very sarcastic way. I think politics should tremble when a when a Bible believer opens up a scripture and says, I am about to speak from the word of God to my culture. Murdering babies in the womb is absolutely an abomination to Almighty God. And of course, the reaction is you can't say that to us. Yeah. That's religious. Isn't it funny? Secularist Satan runs into a biblical topic, sticks his flag in it, and then says, this is a political hands off the political. You can't talk about it. And sadly, the church took its tail and said, okay, I guess we can't talk about abortion. You know, recently, people tried to do this regarding borders. And we've had pastors and Christians say, we can't close our borders. We have to love our neighbor. There's an Old Testament verse that says, welcome the outsiders and the foreigners. That's exactly what they use to think about our borders. For getting that Daniel and Paul in the book of Acts chapter 17 says, God created borders and established the nationalities of those in those borders. Listen, don't tell Elijah not to speak to authorities. Don't tell John the Baptist not to speak to those men. Listen, this is the way God uses people many times. And guess what? As you've said recently in Daniel chapter 2, is God who raises up. And when Nebuchadnezzar refused to acknowledge God, God hit him with a dementia. He hit him with a disease of some sort that incapacitated him until he recognized the God of heaven. And that's the thing that blows my mind about God is that, you know, countries rise and countries fall. You know, Isaiah chapter 40 talks about God blows on leaders, and they like the chaff that drives by their dust on the scales, and they're nothing. They're less than nothing to God. The kingdom that is going to last though is the kingdom of the coming Christ. When every president has been forgotten, when every ruler and premier and prime minister has been long gone, King Jesus will still be on his throne. That's what we're looking for. That's what we pray thy kingdom come. Amen. So good. So real quick, we're going to wrap this up. I don't have no idea. I totally lost track of time. So we'll wrap this up real quick though. Testimonies, Jeff. How did you? How did you? How did Jesus find you? Oh, brother. Yeah, it's exactly right. I grew up in an unchurched non-Christian home in South Carolina, all American home, baseball, apple pie, the whole thing, just a great thing. Great parents, wonderful parents, but just, you know, all-star athlete, but also rock and roll guy. So I'm the long-haired drug dealing hippie in high school until one high school student decided to take a risk and be my friend. And he hounded me over and over and again. We play guitar together. We play basketball together. And then he earned the right to be heard and body me to his church. He earned the right to be heard. That's right. Friendship evangelism. That's right. Exactly right. And Jack, he asked me a question that night at church that no Christian had ever asked me for, because people tried to witness to me and they were afraid of me. He said, if you were to die tonight, do you know where you'd spend eternity? And as this ultra-sarcastic, very proud role model hedonist, I just said, I think I need Jesus. What? And I had, I had, I came to Christ in that pew. No one led me in a prayer. I believed on Christ. I cast myself before him. And at age 16, my life was radically changed in a second, in a millisecond. I'd never read anything deeper than a comic book to that point. I took his own Bible. He gave me that night. I read it, covered a cover. I read 50 books. My first Christian year, years of Christian. How Lindsay's like great planet Earth, all those things. And that's what got me into loving the truth and loving God's word. And it, I mean, I've never been the same sense. So that's how God found me. And I say that as a word of hope, because you look at me then and you go, he's never going, you know, don't look at people like that. That's right. God can change people, but it takes another person sometimes to make that happen. Is it awesome that, and help me out, I'm having a fog bank here, where scripture says from here, from from this time forward, we do not know one another regarding the flesh, that we only know each other in Christ. Amen. That's positive. And think of that, think of the power of that. Because it's beautiful because you and I, we've had our past cross before. And I've only known you in Christ. And then I didn't know till just now that you were a drug dealing hippie. And I wish you wouldn't have told me that. My wife says I would have never given you the time of day how to met you then. Yeah. But I'm joking, of course, because there are those who feel, well, God can never forgive me. I'm too big of a sinner. And I was never a long-haired drug dealing hippie. I watched there. I saw them. You know, I saw them and you could smell them. Yeah, exactly. But the magnitude of sin, when he touches you, when just, when that lightning strike of his revelation touches your mind, it's just that it's that nanosecond moment where he touches your soul and you realize, for me anyway, when I heard, by the way, Revelation chapter 20 was the sermon preached, never been to church before in my life, walked into a church. It was a hippie teaching a Bible study. His name was Greg Laurie. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I didn't know he was. And there was a maniac playing the piano. The crowd was going crazy. And this was at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa in the day. And this crazy white guy with the, everybody had aphrodisiac. And this guy was just tearing this piano up with bare feet. His feet were going on the keys. And I didn't know who that was. I found out later on it was Keith Green. And it was a Monday night at Calvary, Costa Mesa. Greg Laurie preaches Revelation chapter 20. His message was entitled, how to inherit, how to inherit hell. And he went down the list. And I was like, I mean, I wasn't guilty of everything. I didn't have to be. The first thing he mentioned that I was, oh my gosh, that's me. There was this stab. And I knew I was in trouble. And how beautiful it is of God to invade us from the outside. That's right. It's just so awesome. It's so true. Yeah, it's so hard. Yeah. So for me, so you got to, I'll do these two right now. Yeah. There was fire. Exactly. We need a brother. But yeah, I mentioned a little earlier. I grew up on church as well. 13 years old. This is why I love ministries like the student ministry here that teaches depth to. Yeah, yeah. Because 13 year olds are asking them. They can't thank us. They can't relate them in intelligent questions. But they're asking and seeking for those big questions right on. So I was that kid. Again, I grew up. This will give you a snapshot of where my head was when I made it. I was in a Christian school for about three months only. Because we almost failed the seventh grade. So my dad said, we're going to get you straight. Now, we'll send you to a private school. The most affordable one was a Bible believing teaching Christian school. So I was there three months. That's where I first heard about the gospel. And my, my art teacher was also my Bible teacher who had a passion for unchurched. These parts? Yeah. He must have been a great. What a coincidence. Exactly. And I was the only, I look back now. I know I was the only unsafe kid in his class. So he catered the whole chapel and Bible teaching to me. And when answer any questions I had, I mentioned I thought the Bible was a book of fairy tales and I believed in evolution. And this will give you a snapshot of where I was. We had an art contest. And my, the art I submitted at a Christian school was a graffiti-covered subway train car with the alien getting off the bus with a smoking gun. I think I saw that. Yeah. I made a movie about that. Was it like a blue light over there? And this art teacher let me submit that in the Christian school because he didn't want to shame me for where, because I didn't know any better. That's that's how I grew up. But anyway, I left that school before I was saved. But like I said, fulfilled prophecy. Two things got my attention. One, historical evidence that Jesus was a real person. So I was like, oh, well, okay, he was a real person. And then fulfilled Bible prophecy that made me believe the Bible is a supernatural book. So long story short, it took a few months of me really seeking the Lord and praying. I was genuinely praying. God, I want to know truth. If this is real, make me believe. And I was praying that prayer one day. And I don't recommend this. If you hear the gospel respond now, yeah, I was a little slow. But I was genuinely seeking. And I think he was patient with me peeling back some layers. But I was praying that prayer one day. Lord, if you're real, help me believe. And then my next sentence was, Lord, you're real. I do believe. Like a light switch went off in my heart. I know that was the moment I was regenerated. I was born again. And I'll never forget that moment. I don't know the date. It was, I was in a room by myself. I wasn't at a church or anything. But I'll never forget that day. And it's embedded in my soul or something. I'll never forget. And the rest is history. God worked in my life to grow me. I need a lot of growth. So by my early 20s, I was plugged into a church and serving and all that stuff and never looked back. Amen to that. You guys are awesome. We love you guys and keep it up. And friends, listen, Todd Hampson, he has authored how many books now, total? 12, 12 in that series. And then three or four other illustrated books with other authors. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing to me. And then Jeff, 40 plus 12 books. Get your hands on these books. I'm sure that they'll be available in the link for you to check out more. But we were talking before we turned the cameras on. And that is, I personally believe that that the narrative that is thrown out there that you cannot prove the existence of God, I do not believe that's true. I don't believe that's a true statement. I believe you can prove the existence of God. And it's called eschatology, Bible prophecy. Beyond any shout of a doubt in my opinion, that if you're struggling with the existence of God or can I rely upon the Bible, I want you to listen, doubts are fantastic as long as you get them answered. And God can take a doubt and feed at the truth and that will become your pillar. And Bible prophecy is one of the greatest things, at least it is for me, that has settled all the other doctrines of the Bible. Now maybe, you know, you're not supposed to think this way, but I do. I trust what is called the the sociological doctrines of the Bible, the salvation doctrines of the Bible. I trust them because I know that the God of the Bible knows the future and he has revealed that in the scriptures to us for us to know that. And is it interesting that Satan offers up false prophets? It's certainly important to say it. It should be important to you to understand the Word of God. So whatever these guys do, follow them, subscribe, go to their podcast, get their books. That's why we're sitting down here. And so listen, be ready. If there's anything going on in your life that's not pleasing to God, you already know it. I didn't have to say it. You already know it. He's been harping on you about it. And Todd said it a moment ago, when you hear him speaking, obey, because it's coming from the one who loves you the most. You don't even love you the way that he loves you. You don't care about your soul as much as he does. And so please give your heart to Christ. He died in the cross for your sin, Rosegan, from the dead. And there's no merit on your part that can warrant your entrance into heaven. You've got to come to him quite frankly. You've got to come to him, allowing him to ruin your life, ruin your life in this world. Let us die to this life. That's what he wants to do with us. So listen, until next time, God bless you guys. And as always, it's, it's our belief that it's time for you to live out what you believe in. It's always time for real life. God bless you guys. This Jack Hibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities, are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.