When The Culture Hates You

Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. Everybody with us on this podcast we have Natasha Crane an excellent author and she has written a book that you're gonna not only want to hear about but you are gonna want to buy it you're gonna want to buy a copy for others and spoil and learn. You might want to read the back of the book before you read the front end of the book because well stay tuned you'll find out why you can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast today if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings to us that's like saying amen or yes then that rating will encourage others to listen now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you here is Jack Hibbs. Well hey listen welcome to this special edition of our podcast together the Jack Hibbs podcast and we thank you so much. You are the reason why this has been growing I got to tell you as an old guy I'm blowing away so many of our viewers are younger and that makes me so very happy and you can expand that you can expand the influence that we can team up together and by you sharing this and making comment available would be great so listen today we have with us I would say a modern day for me she's a modern day Deborah the church needs Deborah's today and that is the princess warrior the judge Deborah in the Bible who knew the word of God and knew the spirit of the Lord and what to do and so Natasha crane is with this and Natasha I'll just say a few things but please fill in the blanks if I remember right you're the author now is this your fifth or your sixth book will this be the fifth book this is the fifth this is the fifth book so you're not sitting around you're not kicking back everything that you write is stimulating and I mean this in a good way it's cerebral meaning it's not that it's so hard I can't understand it it it means that you are you remind me of authors that lived a hundred or 200 years ago because you do not dumb things down you bring us up to a level of intellect and thought process which I think the word of God does that I think when the Lord spoke to Peter and he said that we need to be able to give an answer for the reason for the hope that is within us and so I love how you write and you know I have to I have to confess to you guys I'm very biased toward her books because she says things that I think she she writes things that that I agree with and it's kind of how life goes you know anyway and so Natasha tell us more about who you are before we get into the nuts and bolts of this latest book yeah well first thank you so much for the kind words I really appreciate that I'm well I'm a mom and a wife I have three kids three teenagers so it's fun fun time twins who are 16 who both just got their drivers licenses so that's that's a lot of fun and stressed at the same time and also a 14-year-old and live here in Southern California about 45 minutes away from you so it's a pleasure to get to come and talk to you in person and yeah so this is my fifth book and I've been writing for about 10 years now and you kind of traffic with some other mutual friends of ours don't you you guys kind of get together and and pull something off of course I'm alluding to you and getting together with Frank Turek and and what you guys do what is that what is that gathering called I know you we had here once the unshaken conference unshaken conference can people get those can they view those messages online or they're not online but we have four new conferences this year so it's Frank Turek and Elisa Childers and myself and so we've done eight dates over the last two years and now we're doing all new content over the course of this year our next one is an Albuquerque on the first week in April and then we're going to Oahu the first week in May that's a great great location somebody has to go there so we decided it would be us and then later this year we're gonna be in Dallas and San Clemente now are you already booked up for the year regarding this those four dates yes but we'll continue in 2020 so does something that you guys set or can like if if a ministry is watching this right now how do they or do they have the opportunity to say hey can you come in 2026 can you come to our location yeah absolutely if you go to the site it's unshakenconference.com when you go there there's a form that you can fill out to request bringing the conference to your church and it's awesome you guys because it is in the area of apologetics for those of you who are not familiar with that term that doesn't mean that they go around the nation and apologize for being a Christian it's that they give argumentation and logic and reason as to why being a believer makes absolute sense in fact we believe it makes the only sense and so your latest book this is awesome because I want to just jump into this and you can say I got things highlighted because I was going through this and all but I I want to ask you what was the genesis of you writing this book and then I want to ask you behind that if you would what is your hope what is your takeaway what do you want to see people get out of this excellent work of yours yeah so my last book if I start there is called faithfully different and the subtitle was regaining biblical clarity in a secular culture and the purpose of that book was really to help Christians just kind of distinguish better between what a biblical worldview is and what a secular worldview is and so it has a very positive sound right faithfully different everyone wants to be faithfully different people people like that idea but as I started going out and talking to people speaking at conferences like unshaken and speaking at churches that I that I get out and talk to what I was finding is that people were overwhelmingly feeling this increasing hostility and culture I heard story after story about how people were being cut off by family members a lot of parents being cut off by their kids they're being cut off by their friends in a lot of cases some people were losing jobs some people had trouble getting jobs in the first place because it was hard to find a job that would fit within their beliefs and so as I heard this over time I realized there is really a sense of okay now that I have a biblical worldview I don't like what's happening in response to that right and so I started to realize I think that somebody needs to kind of break down the hostility more to understand hey this is the expectation that we need to have in today's culture it's going to be like this because I think Christians have had the wrong expectations for too long we've thought that being a Christian means being nice and people are happy with you and if they like you if you're over here with your clear biblical worldview then everything's gonna be okay but I think what we're seeing increasingly is that that's not the reality of it and so as people are starting to see this hostility arise I wanted to break it down analyze it kind of say hey this is why this is where the hostility is coming from but then also go to the next step of saying yes this is the reality of the situation but that doesn't mean to be quiet so there's less hostility this is hostility we need to come to terms with and then be salt and light and then pursue the common good in our culture so that's really how I came about writing the book you answer that as clearly as you write and that's beautiful perfect this has been something so much on my heart because if you were to stop and ask any of the various staff members that are in the ministries that we have if they if you were to ask them what has Pastor Jack been saying over these last five years maybe six years and it's been this I and it's pre-COVID I shared with them a struggle that I was having with the Lord in my private time where I I became and I think it was just a divine intervention of God where I became disgruntled with myself that I wasn't that I wasn't to use the term hated or disliked by the world enough I felt I felt almost as though I was letting God down and yet at the same time you can't go out you can't go out and be obnoxious to make people hate you that's evil but I really struggle with Lord if I love you you just said in John's gospel to me that if I love you I shouldn't be surprised that the world hates me because they hated you first but Lord I don't see that happening I you know I get bad excuse me I get pads on the back on a Sunday or Wednesday or at a conference and I don't like that I want to I want to be able to to make sure that I'm making a difference and so when when I was struggling through that like a year after that then COVID happened and then we took a stand to keep the church open and speak the truth of the rescue people and then it just went from one social crisis to the next from the COVID thing to what was being taught to our kids in school regarding LBGTQ plus and then now the transgender remedilation stuff and then now a Israel being a nation is the Jew a viable individual what in the world's going on here all of these things where we became very much hated and in that I found great peace Natasha because it wasn't that I was looking for blood in the water to get punched in the nose that's sadistic that's sick what happened was the angst in the criticism against me is what was being levied against Jesus in the word of God and in the midst of rejection right in the midst of hatred I found great peace and comfort because I knew that I was on his side and there was a sweet can I say association with him that I've now come to cherish and so I'm very leery about beware as the Lord said beware when all men speak well of you and so that's a fine line we walk as a Christian isn't it because the one whom we follow is the most loved individual on the planet at the same time he's the most hated individual on the planet and so your book is such a great great lesson and guidance system to navigate this world I love how you stress numerous times that we need to come to grips with the fact that the truth is offensive to those who don't want truth can you just talk more about that speak to our audience and that right and and I love what you're saying at high gave you a comfort to know that this was exactly what Jesus said this is why it's so important for us to know what Jesus said that if the world hates you know that it has hated me before it hated you um so yeah absolutely I'm sorry I just want to comment on that was your question no no no it's good truth I love how you throughout the book there's a it's a woven throughout your book truth it's so great because people will think even churches will say well you know the greatest thing that we could do is have unity have unity I get very leery when I hear that because usually when someone talks about unity they're talking about you and I compromising even truth to get to the unity table and yet truth can never be compromised don't never be unity without truth right so explain to us more about how the very truth of God by nature must be offensive the truth of God is always going to be offensive to people because ultimately if you are a person who's not living for God if you're not a child of God your authority for life for truth for knowing what's good and bad and harmful right and wrong your authority is yourself that's what it comes down to everybody has an authority for those things so it's either going to be you or it's going to be God and so when you tell people the truth about what God said what he's revealed specifically in the Bible they're going to be offended by that because you're telling them basically you're no longer the boss you don't get to determine what's true it's actually someone else it's actually someone who is external to you and people don't like that and I think it's so interesting because if you look at the research on religious trends in America today what you see is that the vast majority of people do believe in a God in some kind of God or concept in fact it's about 90% believe in some kind of God or higher power but when you look at the worldview research to when you just don't ask people how do you identify yourself or what do you believe about God but actually ask what people believe very specifically about who God is and about the nature of truth and these kinds of things Dr. George Barna has found that those numbers look like about 4% about 4% of people have a biblical worldview so what does that tell us it tells us a lot of people love the idea of a God but they don't love the idea of a God who has revealed himself specifically in scripture because now we have a basis for knowing confidently who God is and who we are and what's our relationship what's required of us people don't like that yeah they they don't want to know that there's a specific God culture is completely fine with a generic God who requires nothing but it's very offended by a specific God who requires everything and that's ultimately why truth is so offensive to people it's an authority issue it's amazing to me because when Paul is waiting for the ministry team to show up he's waiting for them in Athens he walks up the avenue I call it the avenue of the gods where all of these various deities are enshrined in statue form and he's taken it all in and he's realizing oh my goodness man this location this Mars Hill this this is the epicenter of of all worship of all gods or whatever they may be and then of course Paul goes into x17 what what he says about that what's amazing is nobody can deny archaeology sociology whoever they might whatever their discipline might be nobody can deny that man is a moral man is very I say moral man seeks some form of morality and and to do that he's got to attribute a deity or deities to this in other words I guess what I'm saying is when you look at the gods that are represented at Mars Hill or anywhere else in the world there there are always gods that creates that will give him license to do what he wants to do so if I don't want the Judeo-Christian biblical god of the Bible I'm gonna make up a cult or a cult god or gods that approve of my desires and so I will carve this image like it is because that's what I want to do what's amazing to me is people they know this you can study this you can get degrees in this and never come to the knowledge of the truth that if all of these people worship all of these various different gods wouldn't it make sense to dial down on the fact that they all can't be right okay so if there's this one god who actually makes decorations and statements that he's so unique that you can put him to the test and be proven I'm a big fan people will take issue with this there'll be those who will say they always say it to you I know and frank in your team well you can't prove the existence of God I actually believe you can and I think that's why Bible prophecy is so tragically so neglected in so many areas but people are afraid of it I don't know why but Bible prophecy 33% of the Bible is prophetic in nature I think it proves the existence of God among many other things but it's this one who says out of space and time this is who you are Jack this is what you're like and you're lost I'm here to tell you like a good doctor you're lost you need me he's honest he tells you the truth it hurts it cuts to the heart and this is where people in my opinion just flame out when you say he is the savior people get offended at that wait did you say Jesus is is savior what are you implying I'm not implying anything I'm telling you he's the savior or the sinners we saviors save he's the one and only savior we need saving the gospel now you write about it so well the gospel so offensive it's so offensive because if it's the good news it implies that I might be messed up with bad news if he is God then I'm not right if I need a savior then that means I'm lost and I'm greatly offended how dare you and so we're getting down now to the age of of the church where just preaching the gospel so many pastors will say I just preach the gospel sometimes I wonder if they do because if they're preaching the unadulterated gospel the first word of the gospel is actually the same word that Jesus said it's the same word that Paul said it's the same word that Peter said and it is so offensive it is repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved people will not get past the word repent because it implies that they're not thinking right they need to change their mind and your book addresses issues give us some of the examples of things that you take on that challenge the status quo the modern day popular way of thinking you come along Natasha Kran and you say wait a minute you've got to you've got to understand something um explains some of the the power points to your chapters well the first half of the book is really geared toward helping people understand the subtitle of the book which is persevering for the common good as Christians in a hostile public square so that's really important because I think that we kind of have this christian ease in the church about salt and light and I sometimes wonder do we even know what salt might is you know it's on a t-shirt it's a conference title like we hear this all the time but have we really dug into what that looks like especially in the midst of hostility and so really the first half of the book is geared at understanding what Jesus said about the world hating us so that we can take comfort in that as you talked about earlier but then digging into this concept of the common good what does what does that mean in society Christians are very confused about what is actually good because we're confused about theology a lot of times you know when you're talking about how no one wants to hear the bad news and we don't want to hear that we need a savior the majority of self-identified Christians according to research actually believe people are basically good so we don't even get this right it's it's a problem in house it's not just out there and so we have to really get clear on understanding what is good in a sense of using God as a standard of good and not what everyone else in culture uses that term to mean and I think that's really difficult for a lot of Christians to get her head around because when people say hey you're actually harmful you're toxic though your views are hurting people we think man we're hurting people but we're not for using God standards for determining what is good so we have to get our arms around these definitions and so really that's the first half of the book is helping people think through that there's also a chapter when the common good is political not everything about the common good is political but a lot of times when we're loving people enough to care about the quality of their lives in the context of the societies in which they live that involves the political so how can we think about this better you know in some ways I really wanted the book to have been written even though I couldn't do it before the election because we saw so many of these bad thinking points the mantras and the church like Christians shouldn't seek power and the if we get involved in politics we're harming our witness we're imposing our values on others I tackle all those objections in the book wouldn't that be let's just be candid right now wouldn't if you were Satan wouldn't you say those very things absolutely translation behind the scenes if I'm if I'm the devil I'm thinking oh crud they're the only ones that have the answer all right the message that they have is actually truth and it could really fix things so how do I how do I keep them from getting involved shame them label them tag them take the narrative from them reframe it and isn't it sad today I get in trouble for this all the time and it's it's almost become comical well you know pastor you're the political pastor and I I used to get offended at that and then I don't now anymore because I had my I have two golden moments Natasha where the the Republican Party came to me in separate occasions and they said we want you to run for office and you you don't have to pay for anything we just want you to run for office you're gonna win and I said I don't have to pray about this I don't even have to pray the answer is absolutely no the reason why is I know what I'm called to do but the funny thing is if I would step into the political realm if I would have number one I'm just as able to do that I as a as a constitutional right than anybody else it just so happens that I'm I'm a believer so for me I did not want to choose sides because to me that would be choosing sides where the Republican Party twice asked me to run for office why would I do that I would marginalize myself personally from where I'm at is it was you suggest why you're not making the case no I am making the case because where I'm called I'm called to speak globally over the issues of Republican Democrat independent I don't even care about those titles here's my point when somebody comes up and says it's okay to kill babies in the womb it is fundamentally wrong to say that as a Republican independent or Democrat issue you want to you want to know where I'm offended I'm offended when Christians let the world steal a biblical topic marriage the definition and say Christian get out of the arena you have no say in this we're making it a political issue we're raising the flag up on abortion definition of marriage when the church can and cannot meet or whatever it is you stay out of it and if you come into it you're being political well oh so you get to be political I don't and yet you're stealing truth and you're redefining it to me those are fighting words to me and it's not political I don't I don't gripe about taxes I'm not gripping about this that other thing even though I might disagree that's not my thing as a Christian leader my my call and your book is so great on this is this is the biblical issue and you cannot let it be politicized to where you have no say you think you have no comment you do have comment you do I think we have the ultimate say to it and I love the boldness that's in your book yeah I think it's so important for people to just think about what does politics even mean and I try to give back to definitions again in the book so much of this comes back to defining things well right politics is just the way that people living in communities make decisions about how they're going to live together as Christians we're part of this country we live in this constitutional republic like everyone else so of course we should have the right politically to advocate for what is good and what is right in society and if we're not going to be the one to actually advocating according to true god-based definitions of good and evil others are going to advocate for those things and call good evil and evil good so if we're not going to get out there and advocate for the right things who will it's got to be us I mean in Romans 13 we get the purpose of government right that civil rulers are to promote the good and restrain the evil well that presupposes that we're defining good and evil rightly and it's Christians who are going to do that so of course we have to be involved in the public square of course we have to advocate in politics this is so good because two things come to mind with what you just said so Romans 13 tells us that god has established the governmental authorities for his glory and for good it says that the minister of righteousness is to do righteousness and so Isaiah chapter 10 verse 1 says woe unto those who write misfortune for the people and bad laws Isaiah 10 verse 1 so government can go awry it can go off the rails but and you might remember who some great said that the church should be the conscience of a nation I don't know if that was Bonhoeffer or who said that but it's such a great statement because there is that realm of in this thank you by the way for saying a constitutional republic folks you don't hear that anymore hardly ever but that's what we live and we do not live in a democracy we live in a constitutional republic where we the people it's amazing it's rare but we're the ones that are supposed to elect our leaders and then hold them accountable and so who's going to hold them accountable right well whoever's going to hold them accountable is the one that's going to speak up and if you speak up without a biblical worldview then you are just pulling something out of the air and saying well I think we should do this based on our feelings what we feel so let's take a consensus and who feels this the most the closest to us and it's pandemonium it's really what the Bible warned that every man will do what's right in his own eyes where as John Adams said any nation that decides to pick up the Bible and make it their book of law will be a nation at prosperous that's an awesome statement you see well I'm not a believer yeah that's okay too you know our founding fathers created a government that gave the exact same rights to the believer and the non-believers never happened before in human history and I love that about their confidence in the government that they were giving us was it's founded upon truth and Jefferson mentions numerous times that so much in fact almost verbatim some of his great famous statements in the Declaration of Independence were quotations from John Locke in his two two volume treaty of government and John in that book John Locke quotes 1500 Bible verses in those two volumes it's amazing getting back to truth um what what do you hope your book achieves uh in in the minds of the reader what do you how do you want to see them converted uh with your argument I want them to see that our public influence matters and to have an idea of how to do it so the book is very practical I think I specifically wrote it to be practical so that first half gives all of those principles to understand why it matters the things that we're talking about today the second half of the book then says okay here are five specific issues where culture is going to hate you for advocating for a biblical view let's better understand them let's better understand where the hostility comes from and each of those chapters ends with action points for the common good ideas I mean there are many ways that you can get involved in advocating for righteousness in society these are just a few ideas to help people think about it so I talk about subjects like abortion Christian nationalism uh social justice transgender issues and the the sexualization of children those are the specific topics that I hit there and you know I make the point in the book too that when we talk about culture hating us that's not to say culture hates us for everything we believe and do so for example my husband as the president of the Orange County Rescumation he does not get hatred because he's helping the homeless by and large our culture is totally fine with you wanting to help homeless people it lines up with the the progress of the day the spirit of the times until he but well if you if they start getting involved in other issues about hey we have you know a certain standard of faith or things like that then you're going to feel it but when you start taking a step back and you say well what if I'm advocating publicly not for a homeless shelter but now I'm advocating publicly for a pregnancy crisis center for example now the culture hates you there's a reason for that because now you're running up against the popular moral consensus so we're not going to be hated for everything and that's not the claim of this book that's not what either of us is saying when we said that Jesus would hate you but scripture is really clear that you are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness so those who are slave to sin are going to hate the children of God who are slaves to righteousness because we're actually shining light on the works of darkness no one's going to like you for that so really I hope that people will come away from this book going I need to step out more and I've seen several reviews saying that that's the effect it had on them that they realize I'm going to get off of the living room couch I'm going to go do something I understand this matters I'm not going to let those mantras out there anymore affect me and keep me keep me silent because this matters it's something that we are called to do it's awesome because I want you guys to know that what she has written about I can tell you that from just from one report is opinion I should say observer really is that what she's saying works because in our own church when people were informed from the pulpit that this is what's happening in our school board for example I didn't say anything to any particular parent I didn't say you with the red shirt you know you should run for school board president and you should run for mayor I never said that God spoke to people when they when they were informed that this is what's happening their first thought was something needs to be done about this it's because it's wrong it's wrong it's wrong in every level it's wrong and then they began to pray and they got involved they ran for the mayor's office and they got elected they ran for school board and they got elected and somebody like for example I'm telling you without saying names that's exactly what happened here and then what's the next thing that happened the foundation uh the freedom from religion foundation put a headquarters they're they're based in Wisconsin they put a headquarters here in town to counter and we found out not too long ago that George Soros actually was giving them money to do what to stop the light from advancing so these are school board individuals and and and people who didn't say we're going to preach the gospel every day in the classroom they never said that they just happen to be Christians who got involved so for example you mentioned your husband doing what he does everybody's fine with it not a problem good for you but if it got out for example that your husband happy I'm not saying he's doing this I'm just saying if somebody found out that your husband is feeding those that are in need and giving them a Gideon Bible now there's a problem people would like wait a minute separation churches state you can't do that I find it incredibly hypocritical that when someone does that if they were to do that and hand out a Quran nobody would say a word they wouldn't say either for fear or what I do not know the reason but you mentioned you look look you can take a hammer and hit your own finger and yell Mohammed or Buddha no one's going to bat an eye you say Jesus people do not call upon Mohammed when they slam their finger in the door they call upon Jesus isn't that interesting what in the world is going on you have introduced your readers on how to get involved because it's righteousness people say wasn't that reserved for you professional religious did you righteousness no it's not listen to this the scripture tells us casting down arguments and every high thing that it's exalted itself against the knowledge of God bringing every thought into captivity and to the to the obedience of Christ next verse this is second Corinthians 10 verse six is coming up not second chronicles listen this is second Corinthians 10 verse six and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled your book literally writes on that topic obey God do the right thing don't worry about what other people say or they might unfriend you or whatever be on the right side of the Lord and people are going to hate you because they see the Jesus action in your life they're going to associate you with Jesus they may or may not understand that part but when you become salt and light to your family to the community around you people are not going to like you when you do that and that the amazing thing is as you well know throughout church history the greatest benefits in a culture and a society have come from church from the believer and it's just a remarkable thing of Natasha why why is it that your book why is it that your book had to be written thank God it is it is and it's out and you can get it everybody yet where Amazon or where Amazon other online books this is online books yeah but Amazon is really good because the algorithm bump it up get it by it I'm a big fan of promoting other people's books that I believe in by two copies keep one for yourself and give one away but um why did this book have to why did you have to write this book why is this book something that I wish honestly didn't have to be written like I wrote a while back living in the days of deception it's sad I had to write a book it's sad but the Bible tells us that man without Christ loves a lie you saw something you saw the need you felt the tug from the Lord to write this book um take us now you've read or twice you've referenced the front end of the book take us to the back end of the book and as to why that has to be written why this has to be said so for each of those individual issues the culture is not overwhelmingly saying hey Christians you're you know you're just wrong intellectually about that and they're not walking away right they're saying that we're evil for our beliefs on these things so when we talk about abortion or we talk about transgender issues and then sexuality it is very much a claim against us that we are doing something harmful and morally wrong it's not just an intellectual disagreement that we're having and I think that's what Christians need to grapple with to understand the nature of those issues and why culture thinks that we're so harmful so I'm really trying to get into the mindset of the world to say this this is what they're thinking so for example on my chapter on abortion the chapter is called controlling misogynists because that's how culture sees us they don't see us as you know the heroes of preborn babies you're a controlling misogynist well let's think about the language there as an example of how they're seeing us they're seeing this primarily from a perspective of your harming women in some way I mean if we're if we really try to understand the mindset so that we can better engage we have to understand very few people are out there saying I love killing babies that that's not the message that that culture has they are of course advocating for the right to do that that has the outcome of it but from that their perspective they're saying we don't want to harm women so in that chapter I'm trying to help Christians better understand okay this is this is why they hate us because they think that we're harming women when we advocate for pro-life policies so let's actually address that specific claim about harm to women and so I just go through all of these different objections in the chapter that are all about how women are harmed whether it's because they're going to have to bear their rapist child or because we're somehow controlling their bodies they're being forced to raise kids in bad circumstances all of these are the kinds of objections that you hear and so I think it's important for us to not just know the biblical position of course we have to know the biblical position and I present that in the book but to also understand the culture so I did a lot of legwork in those chapters to help us better get that so that we can better engage with non-believers and importantly better advocate for what is right on these issues how did we get here how did we how just generically speaking how did we as a as a woman how did the woman the female in our culture today come to the place where it's not only okay to kill the baby that's within me but but to see it almost as a virtue from their perspective Natasha where I mean where how did that happen because doesn't doesn't a woman doesn't a female have a sense of this God-given maternity that this is a miracle in me when even if they hear it they well look I'm positive they don't have it they don't even know they haven't even gotten you know morning sickness yet I'm positive it's always been my understanding nine maybe I'm a dinosaur but it seems like that was something where good, bad or ugly there was this maternal what am I going to do I mean I'm I have a I have this issue well the issue is because it's a human it's a big deal what's going on good better ugly it's a big deal where now it's like oh you know what I'm you've seen this more than I have people with banners I'm glad I had no more shit where does what is this well I think this this reminds me of my last book and faithfully different where I identify what I think are the four basic tenets of secularism if the authority for everything that's true comes back to the self there's some things that you're going to have in common with other people who's authority of the self ironically as it is number one feelings are you're going to be your ultimate guide number two happiness is your ultimate goal number three judging is the ultimate sin and number four god is the ultimate guess so these are the four tenets I identify in that book and then work through those the one specifically though that comes to mind when you ask a question is happiness is the ultimate goal if you have come to believe the cultural lie that happiness is the ultimate goal of your life that that is everything you're seeking you can justify anything you can justify absolutely anything and I think that's what you see in a lot of these cases where people are talking about for example this shout your abortion movement right hashtag shout your abortion and people were talking about hey I'm glad I had an abortion it's it's so hard to fathom right it's so hard to understand but if you understand that mentality that whatever makes you happy is the right thing to do you start getting into that mindset I think of where people are coming from because they're basically saying hey I had an abortion and my abortion made me happy in our culture that's like a mic drop moment in our culture people think that if you say oh you you don't need to talk to me anymore about that I'm I'm happy I'm happy I keep your Christianity that's okay I'm happy they assume because they're presupposing that within their worldview that that's the most important thing they could let you know about themselves that mic drop I'm happy and I can walk away so if you have completely embraced out lie that that's what your life is about to be the happiest you can be then you're gonna justify all of these kinds of activities not just abortion but anything else and so it's even though it is hard to get our heads around I think that that is where it stems from that people think I'm going to be in a better place now than I was if I had had this baby and therefore I'm happier is that amazing so this type of what is it an epicurian pursuit a pleasure pursuit a humanism yeah we should have learned by now right when we pursue these appetites or when we say things like I'm happy with my abortion that over time there's a callusness yeah that is formed to where I think might have been Norman Geisler somebody once said a long time ago that when God dies in the minds of in the mind of a man then man dies in other words if I don't have anybody to answer to right if it is the survival of the fittest than I went I'll see to it and so but with that with that self-ness there comes a callusness a coldness a loveless worldview that it's as long as I'm happy and I mean it's just it's textbook Romans one it is there you are suppressing the truth and unrighteousness it is a moral issue it's interesting though because it's consistent within their worldview right if there is no external authority then it's consistent to believe that the authority is you you just you know you get to decide everything for yourself because there is no God who's revealed himself in some way so in one sense it's interesting to see that they're being consistent within their worldview it's just that their basis for reality is completely objectively wrong yeah do you think I mentioned callusness that that statement came from this thought I may be wrong but I remember when I was not a believer and the thought of God existing made me uncomfortable and so I spent a lot of energy when I say energy I would lay down at night and then the energy would be spent in my head arguing with myself whether whether isn't to God and what I just did doesn't matter and it's grueling to live like that would you say or are you saying that there are people who they laid out at night and they don't have that they don't because Jesus said the Holy Spirit has come to convict the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment what terrifies me is if I understand Romans one right there comes a point in time when they're not battling that anymore do you believe that do you believe that women would say I'm so glad I had my abortion I want to believe I want to I want to believe that they're being bombastic and silly and at night when the cameras are off they don't really mean it but you're saying they mean it well I think it depends on the person I mean they're different layers of that right I think for some people they are discovering up I think deep down everyone has a sense that this is this is a human being and I think that's one of the reasons why Christians should continue to speak out not just to say well they're worldview as wrongs they're not going to hear anything we have to say you know if well Romans one is true which we believe it to be then that means that actually what we need to do is draw out of them what they already know to be true so the more that we can share to get people thinking about this is a human being the more it kind of rises the the thought in their minds that wait a second this this actually is wrong because I do think that deep down deep down everybody knows that of course but they're covering but they're covering it up and so for some people they might be so callous to it that it might be buried so far under that it's harder to reach them it depends on the individual yeah because Romans does say Paul wrote who knowing who knowing God did not give him glory yeah and like you said earlier they suppress the truth in unrighteousness and if I remember right even they're aware that he should receive glory and honor and praise but they refuse to give it to him that is something that is so incredibly powerful um wrapping this uh what is something I've not asked you that you want to make sure uh gets gets said today well we've talked about a lot of great stuff from the book but I would just say the the final chapter of the book is one that a lot of Christians aren't talking about I do think that I've given it a unique framing in the rest of the book in terms of the issues that Christians are discussing like abortion and things like that but the final chapter in the book is about the attempt to liberate children sexually and this is a very grim and dark topic but I don't hear Christians talking about it much a lot of people have written about sexuality and general and LGBTQ issues this chapter is not about that but rather about the fact that there is a subset of activists in that community who are actually advocating for the sexual liberation of children meaning they want children to experience sexual pleasure themselves and this as I said I know that's very dark and a grim but basically the more that you see a society that's willing to say everything is a social construct everything is just a you know something that we've come up with as a society in terms of gender or sexuality well the next thing that's going to go is anything around age and so childhood innocence quote unquote childhood innocence as a concept is something that is trying that they're trying to deconstruct so this comes from and I know we don't have time to get into it but an area called queer theory if you google queer theory and childhood innocence what you'll see is that there are plenty of activists who are working according to the perspective of queer theory who want to get rid of any concept of that childhood innocence so that children can participate sexually as well and what is truly shocking about it is that a huge avenue through which this is coming in is the drag queen story hour yes most people most people just think they're being what I call mainstream allies they want to support the LGBTQ community they want to bring kids to the drag queen story hour thinking it's about acceptance and tolerance and inclusion but I talk in that chapter about the fact that people who are directly involved with it in fact one of the board members of drag queen story hour has published a whole academic paper on how that's not what it's about they'll tell you themselves you can actually read the paper they basically acknowledge in it that it's not just about kids learning about queer lives this is their language but about teaching kids to live queerly and you have to understand from the the perspective of this theory queer theory we're not queer does not mean gay in this context that's what most of us associate with that terminology right but what they mean by queer is that you are deconstructing all norms around gender and sexuality so it's not that they're saying hey we're trying to make your kids gay per se what they're saying is we're trying to get your kids to get rid of any idea that there are norms around gender and sexuality from a young age so when you get rid of gender you get rid of sexuality you teach them to live queerly as the paper talks about that's at any age and so they're starting from a young age because they believe that if you don't start from a young age then you just get kids educated into this pipeline of cisgender heterosexuality and this whole paper lays it out I mean this is not my imagination people people think oh you know drag queen story hour it's not that big of a deal right why are you Christian speaking out about it well it's it is a big deal and there are activists themselves who will tell you that this is one of the avenues through which this is coming in to teach kids from a young age that they can participate in sexual activities that's just one example you see pride parades today that are supposed to be family friendly and yet there are a lot of events taking place and those that aren't family friendly at all that's not to say that every single activist is advocating for this specifically but there is a subset and it's growing and I think that it is one of the biggest concerns and not enough people are aware of excuse me so we shouldn't be surprised if we're hated for standing up for what's right we shouldn't be surprised by the magnitude and level of confusion scripture talks about this and we shouldn't be surprised though it's tragically painful that we're seeing children attacked mutilated disfigured in the name of exclusion inclusion sorry and yet everything that we're talking about right now the Bible foretold so much so that Jesus said in in the last days as at any time if you harm any of these little ones it would have been better for you in the day of judgment it would have been better for you not to have been born in other words modern day Jesus is saying that if you destroy the model that God has created male female the family unit life and you twist it and you manipulate it to destruction that your judgment and eternity your judgment before the throne of God it's unthinkable for Jesus to for Jesus said it it's going to be so bad for you that it would be better for you to not even been born it's terrifying but yet it should speak to the magnitude and level of how precious innocence is to God and as parents were to protect that and defend that with our children rather than expose them well you know they're going to hear it sooner or later that kind of talk is so irresponsible well you know they're going to see it someday better now then it's so horrific and and I don't want to be I have to be careful I don't want to be I don't want to be over the top spiritually crazy on this but I also want to be theologically accurate to where Jesus said in the last days it's going to be like it was in the age of Sodom and Gomorrah like it was in the days of Noah as well and when we see I mean how how how much further can it go where parents are willingly putting their child on this sacrificial block isn't that what the Old Testament told us about regarding Rem fan and Mo Locke and these other deities were parents brought their kids to be destroyed and it's happening again and it's almost it seems almost impossible because we live in this technology and light and age but aren't we getting more I say we as a culture darker and more dangerous to where there's a better chance for you to survive if you're an eagle an eagle egg then a baby in the womb is unbelievable your book is amazing and again everybody you can get this at amazon.com I encourage you to do that Natasha might disagree but I would say Amazon for this reason everybody because people Christians will say I don't buy stuff from Amazon yes you do the if you get it from Amazon it does a very very bizarre thing it's great it it it manipulates their algorithm the the orders wind up actually populating the book upward and it gets greater exposure we want her book to have greater exposure and Amazon the computer system will rank it and it will say for example it's number five in this category that's a good thing that's what we want to have happen when culture hates you and the subtitle is again persevering for the common good as Christians in a hostile public square it's a mouthful compared to the title easy to remember title difficult to remember subtitle yeah but the subtitle is the punch and so Christian be encouraged listen when the world doesn't like you because you're speaking Jesus words when the world doesn't like you because you're going to stand up and do the right thing are you're going to call evil out you know we're supposed to do that we're supposed to be watchmen on the wall proclaiming the danger that's coming we're living in a time that's more dangerous now especially for our children than ever before but notice it's not a coincidence that the things that God has made that are good are all the things under attack masculinity the the right for a woman to be a woman safely to bear children to be a family to reproduce to have faith to do good to love others all of these things are under attack I'm going to submit to you today that it's not a coincidence that it is actually revealed in scripture as a plot and a plan of the demonic powers that seek to deceive you and to capture you and I'll end with this God loves you you may be watching this right now and I hope you are and you're thinking man I disagree with these people that's okay what we don't want you to do is disagree with Jesus ultimately we want you to come to know him because all of us have sinned and come short of the glory of God he loves you even though your sins have separated you from God it is true the Bible says he's angry with the wicked every day but he also says that he's not willing that any should perish Jesus died in the cross for our sins yours included and he rose again from the dead for our justification in other words Jesus paid the price three days later he rose again from the grave to make sure that his atonement is available to you you can have a complete life change listen you say you're open-minded that I'd ask you to consider Jesus consider Christ and get her book Natasha Cran excellent book read it and um pass it on to others so Natasha thank you awesome thank you so much so good to talk to you good to talk to you good bless you guys until next time this jack hips podcast as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listener supported will you consider partnering with us through a special gift go to jackhibs.com to learn more and stay connected