Women Pastors? What Does The Bible Say?

0:00 So there's topics that are always electorally charged, as it were, that generate a response. We're gonna be looking at something that is very controversial in the culture, but not in the Bible. It's not controversial in the Bible. It's very controversial in the culture. So what is that? So as we look at this, it's one of the most important topics trending among predominantly younger believers in the church. Not exclusively, but in the last 15 to 30 years or so, it has picked up tempo. Now, I've been a Christian for 50 years, and so for the first 20 years, it was not even ever a discussion whatsoever.

0:49 And now it is. What are we talking about? We're talking about what is the question of can women be pastors in the church? Can women be pastors in the church? Now, the first thing that you and I are going to have to agree upon is that we cannot use different dictionaries. We have to use one dictionary. And it's going to be simple. It's going to be easy. Because the dictionary that we're going to use is the Bible. And watch this. Herein is the beginning of this great rift or this divide.

1:30 And I don't mean to be or sound simplistic, but I want you to hear me through on this. Ask yourself the question, why is this question about women being pastors in these days such a big deal? In fact, it's interesting. The second most trending conversation in Christianity today, tragically so. Honestly, both these topics, tragically so, in light of what's going on in the world and the magnitude of lost souls, evangelism, for example, But these two run real high, or if not at the top. The other one is Christian homosexuals.

2:14 These are two topics that are immediately energized. You already maybe have just ratcheted up on your emotional level. And we'll be able to monitor that too by the angst. We'll see. We have an angst meter. An angst meter is the hate comments. hate meaning you know what you're talking about. You should listen to pastor whatever, and you should read this book. And what's wrong with you? You old dinosaur knuckle dragging, then come poop, all those kinds of things. That's totally cool. I get it. That's fine. But here's the deal. Both of those two topics are, Women pastors and homosexual Christianity, those are all emotionally charged topics and issues.

3:05 Why do I say that? Because the Bible already answers these issues. The Bible has always answered these issues. So let's dive in and please understand, will you give me some grace? You're supposed to because you're the Christian, right? You have to give me grace on this. This is a little podcast we're doing. This is not an exhaustive, extensive podcast. We will do that in the future. Would love to sit down with some people as well and talk about these things. To be very honest with you. We're looking forward to a new studio that is underway where we can maybe make things more like that. That said, it all comes down to basically this. And for most of you, you're not going to be learning anything new on this.

3:46 There's the complementarism view of what this all means. And that would be that when you read the Bible— The Bible makes it extremely clear, crystal clear beyond any debate whatsoever, that God created male and female to uniquely opposite genders that he has put under what is called mankind. Some people can't even handle the word mankind, but mankind in scientific terms or theological terms, or even social terms, mankind is the race of humanity, mankind.

4:28 And under the race of mankind, there is male, female. And by the way, that's how you maintain a race, is male, female. But in the complementary ism is to declare biblically from the Bible that males and females have their key ordained rules that God has established in the Bible. I didn't make it up. You didn't make it up. Nobody made it up. Paul didn't make it up. Jesus didn't make it up. It has been in the word of God from the beginning. And that is that God has created male and female.

5:09 And he has declared to us that each of us are equally valuable in the sight of God. equally worthy, equally worth, equally usable, equally viable, as God has defined it. Therein is the key, as God has defined it. The egalitarian view is... Whatever a man in the Bible is referred to as having privileges to, the female does too. Whatever the female has privileges to in the Bible, the male has it also. Egalitarian, like the French Revolution.

5:50 Instead of being built upon God, like the American Revolution, the French Revolution was built upon egalitarianism. Egalitarianism. And that didn't go very well. It never goes very well. The reason why is because God has established the structure of things. And in that structure, God has established leadership roles and co-leadership roles. And in those roles, for example, a husband and a wife, those are leadership roles. They complement one another, but one is the head. And the other one is the co-head. And those words, those positions are defined in the Bible.

6:35 Egalitarianism doesn't know anything about that. Egalitarianism often uses a dictionary and an attempted biblical worldview that brings the male and the female to where there's no distinction. Right? I guess there has to be, like maybe just for sex, for reproduction. But outside of that, in the church, there's no difference. The Bible doesn't know anything about that. And so I want, look, you can go look at those two things. bifurcations, if you would, complementary is complementary terrorism and egalitarianism.

7:21 You can look at those in detail, but let's let's dive into this. And because. If you and I do not agree that the Bible is the ultimate authority on everything, then this is not your podcast. We're not—we don't use the same dictionary. I believe the Bible is the all-authoritative word on all things. All things. And so, for example— the Bible teaches us in Genesis chapter 2, verse 18, And the Lord God said, It is not good that man, that would be Adam, should be alone.

8:02 I will make him a helper comparable to him. That's key. I will make him a helper that will accent him. I will make him a helper. There's things that he's lacking. Number one, he's alone. I'm going to make him a partner that completes him. Oh, no, by the way, because I'm God, he will complete her as well. That's why God says, I'll make them one. Isn't that beautiful? I love that. And he said that out of the ground, the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.

8:45 And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all the cattle, to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the field. But to Adam, there was not found a helpmate that was comparable or comparable to Adam And the Lord God caused a deep sleep, divine anesthesia, to fall upon Adam, and Adam slept. And God took one of Adam's ribs and closed up the flesh in its place. By the way, that is not allegorical speaking. If it was allegorical speaking, God would not have had to close up the side of Adam's flesh. Isn't that amazing? God literally somehow...

9:27 performed an operation. An incision was made and a rib was removed and God stitched that up, spoke it up. I don't know how he did it, touched it up, but God healed up that hole in Adam and put Adam's flesh back in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man, he made into woman and brought her to man. And Adam said, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.

10:08 This is important. Is Eve any less valuable than Adam? Nope. Is Eve not as smart as Adam? Nope. Is Eve somehow deficient? Nope. In no way. Is Eve somehow, because she came along second, is Eve somehow in some possible way just secondary? Answer, nope. Not at all. So where do you get that from? Well, giraffes. For a male and a female giraffe to be giraffes that can make giraffes, God created male and female giraffes.

10:53 What about the baboons? Same. What about everything else? After its own kind? The same. Fish? Same. Plants, God's got his complementary work with that. You name it, after its own kind. The seeds bore seeds after their own kind. And the same is true for us. What's weird is that when somebody thinks, oh, Eve came along second, so somehow she's less. That's bizarre. That is not a biblical way of thinking. That's an odd way of thinking, and it's frankly not true. I would say that that would even be heretical. Eve has never been, nor any woman, somehow less intelligent, less able to God and to the usages, to the performances that God has created us for.

11:47 That's important. Let God define this. Now. Generally speaking, men can pick up heavier weights than women, generally speaking. But that doesn't mean anything about headship or leadership. Let's be honest. A lot of women are much brighter, quicker than men in so many things. Right? And equally so, men are in some areas much quicker and much sharper and brighter in other things. That's not an insult. We were made to be one, and that complementary relationship made us whole and...

12:28 And I believe the age in which we live in right now just dovetails into the last days, lies, and deceptions of the enemy. First of all, Satan hates women. I mean, Satan hates all of us. But for some reason, you look at Scripture, man, and Satan just absolutely has it out for women. I mean, look at women and their role in Mormonism. Study that versus the man. Go look at a Mormon heaven. for the male and for the female. And then you tell me which one you'd want to be. Look at a Muslim. Islam. Look at how, look at women in that.

13:12 How were women treated? What do their sacred books say about women? You should look, you should know. That's not biblical. What about an Islamic heaven? Is it a male heaven or a female heaven? Which one benefits more from a Muslim heaven, a male or female? I know the answer very well. I'm not going to tell you the answer. You should go find out for yourself. I tell you what, if I was a Muslim, I'm sure glad that I'm a man because, boy, am I going to have fun when I get to the Islamic heaven. Think about that.

13:52 Christianity is completely different. That's why the Bible says regarding Christ and our salvation and our relationship to Jesus, there's neither male nor female. There's neither slave man or free man. Rich or poor, all are one in Christ. That's key. Can you, please allow me to be sarcastic with you. You're actually, you and I are working together right now. As I make a point, I'm just doing it sarcastically, that when you hear that, that we are all one in Christ, This ends the conversation. You say, Jack, you can't end it. It's too highly debatable. Everybody's arguing about it. Actually, they shouldn't. They really shouldn't. Because why? 1 Corinthians 14, verse 34 says, Let your women keep silent in the church.

14:37 This is in Greece, in Corinth. For they are not permitted to speak, but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. That was the culture of the Greek believers, the Greek culture in Corinth, Greece, in the first century. And Paul is giving them instructions. You guys know the background, right? That during the teaching of the word of God, women, and by the way, a lot of churches in the world still do this. They still do this in LA. I have spoken at a Russian church in Los Angeles, at least twice.

15:20 And all the women sit on one side and all the men sit on the other side. How do you like that? How do you like that? and what they didn't do while I was teaching, no woman stood up and said, Honey, what's this guy talking about? I never heard that before. What's he? And they don't do that because of this verse. Paul had to tell the church at Corinth, Man, don't interrupt the services. If the wife has a question, let her ask her husband at home. This doesn't mean she's somehow subterranean. But when the scripture says that the woman should be submissive, Submissive to the government and to the operation and to the culture of the church when you guys all come together.

16:10 So, for example, here at the church that I pastor, women do not get up and talk to their husband during service. That would be the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit interrupting the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit's exercising the gift of teaching. That's crazy. That wouldn't work. So it's not that the Corinthians were going to beat up on the women of the church. It was to keep order within the service of the church. It doesn't mean the women were less. But the man is the head of the home for a great reason. And I need to be—I need to— to hurry up as best I can and do justice to our time together, even though the clock is running. But this is going to help, I hope.

16:52 Ephesians 5, verse 22. Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife. The assumption is it's a Christian marriage, right? In fact, we know that to be true. If you read Ephesians 5, starting at verse 21. So wives submit, verse 22, So wives submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife. What does that mean? It means that Christ is also the head of the church. So also Christ is head of the church, and he is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

17:36 Again, the assumption is that the wife here being mentioned is married to a Christian man. tragic as a pastor for nearly four decades how many non-Christian men who think they're Christians say to their wives, you need to be submissive to me like Jesus is to the church woman. That just makes me drives me nuts because the guy is not even a believer and yet he's using the Bible against her. The context of this in teaching is that Christ is head of the church and a man is a type or example of being created first by God.

18:17 Christ came first before the church. The man is like a model of Jesus Christ and he comes, the man, before the woman. So in scripture, in what is known as expositional constancy, this is the pattern of God and It is this, Adam came first, woman came second. Though both are absolutely perfectly the same in value to God, there is an order to things. A corporation, a company, a team, anything that has to do with making a difference has key roles appointed.

18:58 Nobody's offended. Nobody's offended. It's just the way that it is. You cannot have five presidents of the United States of America at the same time. You can't have five husbands over one wife at the same time. That's insane. There's a reason for structure. For some reason, people don't want to have the authority of the Bible over their lives, and so they get all uppity about it, and they get into this big argument about egalitarianism, as though it's up for debate. You can debate it all you want, friend. It doesn't bother me whatsoever. I cannot.

19:40 I have to obey. And you might say, well, it's because you're a man. You have no idea how I think and how I believe regarding my submission to Jesus. My submission to Jesus Christ may very well exceed a woman's submission to her own husband because I take my submission to Jesus because I'm a member of the bride of Christ. I can't let my emotions get involved on that. If I want to go right and Jesus says left, I'm going left even though I'm really not happy about it. I'm going to obey because he's my head. So don't think that I run around. I don't run around our house and tell Lisa and bark out orders, you know, bark, bark, bark, and bark, bark, bark.

20:26 First of all, my wife is strong. She's very strong. She knows where she's at with Jesus. She knows her walk. Okay, that said, I don't have to do those things because I know my place in the body. Listen, and I know my place in the home. And as a husband that's head of the house, I'm the first one to be sacrificed for the welfare of my wife and for my family. That's what it means to be the head, is to be the one that leads, even if you're the one that's sacrificed so that the family is preserved or protected. A lot of men turn that around and twist it. If women really understood the actual biblical headship of a man, they would embrace it because the man is to give of himself just as Christ gave of himself regarding the church.

21:15 1 Timothy 2, verse 12. Oh, yeah, yeah. Six minutes left. 1 Timothy 2, verse 12. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. But watch this. But to be in silence. Watch. For Adam or because Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. Wow. That's heavy. That's heavy. That's amazing. It speaks for itself. If the Bible is your authoritative... guidance system in your life? 1 Timothy 3, verse 1.

21:57 For this is a faithful saying, if a man desires the position of a bishop, bishop, deacon, elder, pastor, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach. Who said that? The Apostle Paul said that it's in the Bible, and that's God, God's pattern of leadership in the church. Titus 1, verse 6. If a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children, not accused of dissipation or insubordination, not being rebellious or known to go to the bottle, this is a requirement.

22:49 That's a good man. Genesis chapter 1, verse 27. This is now egalitarianism. But watch, it has its place. Are we equals? Oh, in many places, in most places, we are equals. Not a problem. Complementaryism? Absolutely. Yes. In its place. In its place. But should a woman, can a woman, according to the Bible, not Pastor Ding or not Pastor Dong or Pastor Space or Pastor Ship, Pastor Jack or Pastor Cracker Jack. Doesn't matter.

23:29 Doesn't matter what we say. What does the Bible say? What does the Bible say? So can a woman be a pastor over a church? Right. The answer to that is no, according to the Bible. Can a woman be involved in leadership ministry? Yes. The church that I pastor, women's ministry leaders, their qualified leadership team, their ministry scope ministers to the thousands of women. But you're not going to see a woman come and teach a service on a Sunday morning to a mixed audience of male and female in the General Assembly, or what is known as the convocation of the church, they're not going to pass through that position.

24:25 But watch. Calm down. Wait, calm down. Watch this. I have, on numerous occasions, gone up to the pulpit. By the way, this is true. Watch this. I'll reenact it. I have gone to the pulpit at the church that I pastor, and I have said, you guys, we have a very special treat on this Sunday morning. I am going to introduce to you a woman that needs no introduction, and she's going to be speaking to us today. And so all of you get ready because you're about to be blessed. I want you to please welcome Elizabeth Elliott. And Elizabeth Elliott, when she was alive, she came out and she walked up to the pulpit and she said, first of all, Pastor Jack, thank you very much.

25:10 I want everyone to know that I've been invited here as a guest speaker. I by no means am a pastor, And I am in no means usurping authority over any man. I'm not your leadership team. Your pastor has asked me to speak on the mission heart and the missionary heart of God and his church. And then she went off for it. She did it. It was amazing. I did the same thing with Bridgette Gabriel who came and spoke on Islam and it's an invasion of America. Same thing. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about an ordained position as pastor over a church.

25:52 The Bible says that cannot happen for a female. Why? Because Adam came first. Yeah, but what if she's smarter? She probably is smarter. But what if she's really amazing orator? She probably is an amazing orator. I have not. Look, I get it. But God has established his order. In fact, I'm going to throw this into your lap and you can wrestle with this. If Eve had to be created second to make Adam complete, which in turn makes Eve complete, if the first woman actually came out of a man, why did God do it that way? Why did he just cut to the chase and why didn't God form Eve out of the ground and take out of her rib and make Adam?

26:39 How come? That's a great question. How come? Why? Let me tell you this. All I know is this. If God would have created Eve first, things would have been different. But God created Adam first. It's the pattern he set. You can argue about it. I can argue about it all you want. He's not going to argue about it. It's the pattern that he has set. And how about Galatians 3, verse 28? There is neither Jew, I said it earlier, Greek. There is neither slave nor free. There is neither male or female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. Judges chapters 4 and 5, both long chapters for sure.

27:21 But in the midst of the judges of Israel, there's Deborah. I love her, by the way. I love Deborah in the Bible. She is so cool. She's so great. She's so powerful. Brilliant. Brilliant judge. Brilliant warrior. She's amazing. Hey, you know what? Modern day virgin. Virgin. Not a modern day virgin. A modern day for us or a more recent version of Deborah. And I think the spirit of Deborah, so to speak, was upon her was Joan of Arc. Joan of Arc. You ought to read about Joan of Arc.

28:02 Amazing. Joel chapter 2, verse 28 and 29. And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Your men shall dream dreams. Your young men shall see visions. And also on my men servants and maid servants, I will pour out my Holy Spirit in those days. God doesn't have a problem. Right? The topic's pastor. Are women evangelists? Absolutely. But for God's pattern's sake, he has established like he is over the church. He's established the pastorship to be of a man over the church.

28:47 That's God's doing. Look, sometimes I argue with God why he even put me in the position I'm in. I'm not kidding you. You have no idea how many arguments I have with him. I'm like Jeremiah. I'm like Jonah so many times. Him and I, we take a walk. We have it out. I've never won once, by the way. He always wins. But I get it. But here's the deal. Is the Bible the authority of your life? Then stop trying to change it. Just roll with it. And by the way, why the argument of it? Could somebody... Do you want power? Do you want position? If somebody says to you, I've got to have this position.

29:30 Guess what? You know for sure. That's not the person for the position. If somebody, Pastor, I've got to have this position or else I'll die. Yeah, you're not going to get it because that's the wrong heart. Something's up. I bet you this is all rooted down, down, down, down deep regarding God's authority over your life. It's been my experience that when you surrender to God's authority, everything gets much smoother, much easier. And Acts chapter 18, verse 26. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue when Aquila and Priscilla, Aquila's a man, Priscilla's his wife, the female, heard him.

30:13 They took him aside, this is about Apollos, and explained to him the way of God more accurately. Isn't that great? Priscilla and Aquila, male, female, husband and wife, minister to Apollos and led him deeper in the things of God. I've got more. This is a blank sheet, so we don't need this one. We're almost there. I'm going to take the last few moments to do this. Romans chapter 16, verse 1. Paul said, I commend to you Phoebe, our sister. "...who is a servant of the church in Centuria, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of.

30:58 For indeed, she has been a helper of many, and of also myself." Greet Andronicus and Juna, females again, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners who are of note among the apostles who also were in Christ before me. They got saved before Paul. Just simply noting that these women ministered among the believers and including the ministry teams, the leadership teams. That's awesome. Wow. But there has never been recorded Pastor Phoebe, Pastor Andronikos, or Pastor Juna.

31:40 Not once. It's not a problem. It's not a problem. Do you think maybe also a lot of angst comes from the fact that there are men in pastoral ministries that's not even supposed to be there, but they're there because they got their degree in divinity? Yeah. from some universities, so what? It doesn't mean they're called. This is insane. If people get positions in the pulpit because they have a PhD or a master's in a doctorate in divinity or a master's in theology, oh, that's the criteria? When the church begins to pattern itself after the world rather than the Holy Spirit ordaining the leadership of the church, you've got a messed up church.

32:26 And tragically, it's everywhere. We have these committees of degreed theologians that will pick a pastor of a church in a denomination. And then they wonder why it goes so wrong. John chapter 15 tells you that God's the one that does the ordaining. No man can do it. Where in the world did we think that we can determine who's ordained versus who's not? God's the one that shows us by their conduct and by their fruit. If we should get behind God on that and recognize that God has touched this individual for ministry— Then we lay hands on them based on scriptural authority, and we go through, basically, in my opinion, a reenactment of what God has already done.

33:27 When we recognize the calling upon their life, that's when we send them out, or that's when we ordain them. Almost done. 1 Corinthians 11 verse 5, but every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head for it is one and the same as if her head were shaved. What is that? You got to know. Notice it's Corinthians again. You've got to know what was going on in the Greek culture. It's very important. And the last one, 1 Timothy chapter 2 verse 11. Oh, we've already read this one.

34:07 We already read it about a woman being silent in church, but asking her husband later, like that of Corinthians. It's basically a redo of Corinthians. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. It's talking about the convocation of believers. Think about a Sunday morning where you go to church. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. We've already talked about that. Elizabeth Elliott spoke at this church. Brigitte Gabriel spoke at this church. Heidi St. John has spoken at this church. I don't mean to offend anybody that I've left out. None of them assumed the position of pastor. They all knew exactly their roles, by the way, and they wound up blessing the body because I asked them to come and share on their area of expertise.

34:52 No violation, no harm, no foul. Deborah would have applauded. Phoebe would have applauded. Juna Andronikos would have applauded that. Look, I know this has been a 30,000 foot flyover. I just wonder if we'd stop and check our hearts. If the men who say only men can be involved in ministry, that's weird. Or the women who say women, they get to be pastors too. They get to be senior pastors and pastors of pastors and past this. Can they play a role in the leadership teams? Absolutely. Can they have their positions? Absolutely.

35:35 But for somebody to say, this is Pastor Susie. She pastors XYZ Church. I'm wondering how much of that is rooted and based in emotion, in modernism versus the pure authority of Scripture. Let the Bible rule supreme. And let the Bible, by the way, Be the very thing that defends your position. Because your position, my position, should be 100% biblical. Let the Bible speak for itself. If you do that, you never have to run around defending yourself. I do not defend myself.

36:15 A lot of people say a lot of stuff. You guys know this. People are saying things. They do guys. People take programs of ours and they repost things with all these thumbnail hooks about, oh, this and oh, that about, oh, Jack said this. First of all, in this age of AI, you have no idea for sure. It's crazy town out there. That said, I don't get involved. I don't get involved in that stuff because the Bible is my authority. And I'm not out to convince anybody about anything. I'm out to proclaim the everlasting gospel. I'm to live my life usable to the glory of God, to follow the word, and to cross the finish line being faithful to what he's put into my trust.

36:59 And every single one of you who are born-again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, every single one of you have been called to operate your at least one gift. The Holy Spirit has given you at least one. Do that faithfully and give God the glory. Amen.